Episode 180: Rebroadcast – Fitness writer and online physique coach Bryan Krahn talks fitness training

Today’s episode of the Flex Diet Podcast is a rebroadcast of an interview with my good friend Bryan Krahn. We cover a host of topics from current events to training and exercise. Listen in as we chat openly about what’s on our minds.

Episode Notes

Listen in to hear:

• [20:29] Do you conduct weekly check-ins?

• [37:34] Constrained energy hypothesis
• [1:10:04] Learn not to work through pain
• [1:13:14] One-arm dumbbell row from split stance
• [1:16:01] Landmine row on the floor
• [1:17:35] Favorite lifts
• [1:18:33] How do you define cluster training?
• [1:37:20] Where can people find out more about you?

Find Bryan

• IG: @bryankrahn
• Website

The Flex Diet Podcast is brought to you by the Flex Diet Certification. Go to https://flexdiet.com/ for 8 interventions on nutrition and recovery. The course is currently closed, but you can sign up to be notified when the course opens again.

Download the transcript

Full text below

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Welcome back to the flex diet podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson, or on this podcast, we talk about things to help increase and improve body composition, lean body mass, aka muscle and a performance, all without destroying your health in the process. Today, I’m super stoked to have my good buddy from Canada. Mr. Bryan Krahn is on the program.

And as always, this is brought to you by the flex diet certification, go to flexdiet.com for all the information and to get on the waitlist, that’ll let you know the next time that it opens. And we’ll also put you on to the newsletter, I’ve got a bunch of other great content, a lot of exclusive content that only goes out to the newsletter. And if you have direct questions and things you want to see in the podcast, the best way to find me is to just reply.

Once you’re on the newsletter, that’s usually my first priority other than paying clients to get back to that just allows me to kind of streamline everything too. So go to flex diet, calm flexdt.com For a complete system, on how to use nutrition and recovery methods for yourself, or especially if you’re a coach or trainer to flex diet calm.

Today, as I mentioned on the program, a great trainer, a good buddy who I’ve known for a long time, he actually used to edit some of my articles, when I did more writing for T mag to start with testosterone nation. I might start doing again once I can free up a little bit more time. We talk pretty wide ranging spectrum of conversation here from what’s going on up in Canada, where he lives, whether we’ll get into more training, what he does with his clients, some exercises that both of us, like, and hurdle, the similar episode, I can check out the one I did with Ryan L’Ceur. We just start talking and yeah, it was recorded.

It starts off a little bit slow and not necessarily related to fitness. If you want to fast forward through that, it’s up to you. But enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Mr. Bryan Krahn.

I see you but I can’t hear you. There got the internet in Canada. It’s not working. It’s frozen. Blocked by all the truckers? I don’t know. So I only know that because I talked to a buddy from Canada last week. Otherwise, I know nothing that goes on in the world.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, they’re, they’re protesting tyranny bad. There’s tyranny everywhere. I mean, I feel a little bad because it’s like, their thoughts and their, their message is terrible. But at the heart of it, you know, I you know, I like I like, see protest. I like, you know, and I like because it reminds me of what we fought for.

And you know, and all these people are like, you know, throw them in jail. Like, no, no, you can’t Oh, you know, so or know what they’re doing those that aren’t they’re freezing their bank accounts.

Bryan Krahn

And you know, people are like, Fuck, yeah. And I’m like, I you know, it’s interesting, though, because you try to throw that argument in there going. I don’t think I’m cool with people. They’re like, well, you side with them. Like, oh, yeah, no, no, they’re like, these are this is the Colombian cartel. These are what you eat right?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Not trying to smuggle like truckloads of heroin into Canada.

Bryan Krahn

Well, I know exactly. I mean, well, the Bugaboo is it’s a bunch of us money.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Oh, really? I didn’t know that apart from like, the whatever, the super mega team.

Bryan Krahn

But yeah, I mean, you guys, you got that second amendment, you can solve that problem. But yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

It’s probably a little warmer here than where you where you’re at? I don’t know, do you convert to the, the the F instead of the centigrade now up there, you’re still on the metric system.

Bryan Krahn

Oh, we’ve had the craziest winter, man. It’s been like, now I gotta do what I got to do. The math has been like, most way above freezing like the 50s. Well, that’s the fucking thing I still do in Alberta my part of Alberta. Yeah, March April. That’s when the that’s when Mother Nature lowers that hammer. Hmm. So it’s like right now everyone’s like, you know what I’m like, Yeah, wait for it, you know.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

So yeah, I have this thing where we have snow now we’ve had snow most of the winter not a lot, but I’m like, if it’s gonna be like 10 below Fahrenheit in the morning when I wake up without a windchill. They’re sure as hell better be snow on the ground because there’s nothing worse than looking outside where it’s just brown. And then if you get an overcast day, it just feels so depressing. Or luckily most of the time like now it’s like super sunny and probably 12 degrees above zero. It’s a little bit cold, but when it’s sunny out it it just doesn’t seem that bad. When it’s brown and overcast. It feels horrible.

Bryan Krahn

Well, actually, in the prairies, man, it’s the wind.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

It gets super windy up there.

Bryan Krahn

Oh, like yeah, if you have a windy day you can be you can be fucking cold. But if there’s no wind, you can only do stuff. Yeah, you know, you can, whatever. But seriously, the hint of wind is like I wrote.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, when you have to go outside and our ski mask and goggles to go outside. You know? That’s that’s a little inhumane. I think that’s that’s where I draw the line.

Bryan Krahn

Or yeah, I respect that. Well, you do all this skateboarding and yet or whatever. Yeah,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I used to go kite boarding up there. You blow away two meter kite you’re good to go.

Bryan Krahn

Well, though, I was kinda like that you. You have moved your your office, you know, to the southern states.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Working on it. We were down there. We’re down in saltwater Texas for six weeks this past fall. So end of October through the first part of December. So that’s pretty fun. We came back once the Dominican for a week and then came back was in Costa Rica. I got quarantined for nine days in Costa Rica extra on top of the seven days. That was interesting, which isn’t bad. Like being in Costa Rica. It was great. I love Costa Rica is awesome. But if I’m gonna spend nine extra days in Costa Rica on my own dime, I I’d like to go somewhere other than my hotel. And the hotel was great. But, you know, $200 a night you’re just I could work somewhere else for a lot cheaper. And, you know, it was fine. Nothing bad. But it’s, it was just odd.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I mean, then, Oh, my God, as you’re like, we were in Hawaii. And for a week, and I was terrified. If we get quarantined here, you know, I got we had a raid on the room, but I think their normal rates are it’s like 1002 Nights. Oh, you know, like we did did not pay that. Yeah. But like, that’s like what we would have to pay problem. But well, like when you’re 40 Did you still have access to like humanities? Like, could you go to the water?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I talked about on the podcast and, and so I asked him to like, Okay, you have to give us the hotel before we let you go. And we just throw you out of the bullet tent and kick you in a cab and just take you wherever. And so I didn’t know I’m like, Okay, I gave him the hotel we stayed at near the airport. Because I’m like, I don’t know any other hotels. And I’m thinking I need some place that has, you know, food, and that place normally has a gym.

And so I told him that place not knowing if I can get it for you know that time was supposed to be two weeks. And so Okay, and I’m like, Well, can I go out to get food? Or like, do I have to have like room service for like every meal? And they’re like, No, you can go out and get food. I’m like, oh, so I can go to the hotel and get food. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, Oh, well, can I go outside for a walk? And they’re like, Well, yeah, that’s okay. And I’m like, Oh, I’m like, Could I drive across the border to Nicaragua and take a flight out of there and they get really mad at me. They’re like, No, you’re supposed to stay in your hotel.

Like, obviously, there’s a line somewhere and I pushed it so I don’t know what was anything in between. But I got nervous. Like, I didn’t rent a car. I didn’t go down to 10 houses place. I didn’t go to anybody’s place I knew. Yeah. Because I I didn’t know what the regulations were I didn’t want them to get in trouble because I had to report where I was going to be at and there may not fall in some weird COVID rules. So I just stayed at the nicer more expensive American hotel next to the airport.

Bryan Krahn

No, that’s what I would have done. I mean, I know that the rules are driving me nuts because you know, I did all our PCR tests and you know, airings negative we get back here and my firt my kids first day at his new school, bring him there and he’s all kind of nervous. What okay, then when I pick them up, they’re like, Oh, we just heard that you were in Hawaii. So you have to continue yes to quarantine for

Yeah. Oh, look who the fuck ratted on me.

These are school teachers, y’all, you know, you got that plugged in. Yeah. But anyway, so that’s had to scramble and finding babysitters, and.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, so, yeah, I’ve heard with kids, it’s hard because schools will shut down, daycare won’t operate. And then, you know, if you don’t work from home, or even if you do, it’s like, all of a sudden, now, you got a kid to take care of during your day. Like, Oh, wow.

Bryan Krahn

What a crippling thing for the economy, like, I’ll send you like, okay, you know, and but then the other thing is, is like, before I had this little bugger in my mind, you know, in my mind, I was like, Well, this is great. You know, I work from home, you know, like, I’ll take care of you, we’ll play and then you’ll have a nap. And I’ll do programs you know, they’ll do some calls, you know? Then reality hits is like, Fuck, I can’t do anything. It’s like started email that, you know, just, yeah, even with like, you know, I don’t have a really good babysitter, you know, like you then I’m at every 10 minutes of going, Hey, no, no, he’s not allowed to do that.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Like train the babysitter program.

Bryan Krahn

Oh, yeah, that’s just Yeah, man. I mean, it’s, it’s devastating. Like people, people don’t have kids. You don’t say they just don’t know how that’s completely turns the life upside down. The wholesome parent has to stay home like holy fuck this.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, we don’t have any kids. I don’t even have a plant that’s alive in our house, much less a pet. But I’ve got a lot of clients that have kids and just the stuff they go through and like, even doing calls with them, and you see, like, all the shit happening in the background. You’re just like, Oh my God.

Bryan Krahn

I know. And it’s always funny. But after a while, it’s like this isn’t funny. Like, lose it.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

You still got the two Bulldogs running around?

Bryan Krahn

Well, I’m down to one. But it’s actually it’s actually quite traumatic. He had a heart attack while I was walking.

But yeah, but yeah, that was kind of dramatic. But I have Well, I still got one. She’s six or seven. I think she’s super fat. Like she’s just fucking huge. And then he goes bad with the vet. Our vet does house calls it but first when she’s coming over she’s a new vet and she’s like okay, we’re gonna work on her diet better scale and she’s like yeah, she’s really heavy you get a we’re gonna bring this down and and after about two housecalls she doesn’t bring the fucking scale she’s given up on that we put up on us you know guys we control our food but

Dr. Mike T Nelson

right yeah, yeah, I was talking to my sister once on the phone and we go sudden got on the topic of diet pet food. And I didn’t know that she was calling me from the grocery store. Looking at the diet pet food we just happen to be talking about it. And I’m like, What is stupid idea like what is the dog going through the grocery store like feeding themselves so they’re gonna get the diet food? And then I realized like, oh, it’s the human who feels bad because now they can feed their dog more food and it’s less calories. And she’s like yeah, I didn’t want to tell you I was standing there looking to buy the diet pet food I got off of this random dumbest idea ever.

Bryan Krahn

wow it is scary when you look at the food we we feed pets like sellers just shit specially Oh yeah. Like apparently stuff from China has got like course got like fucking plastic in it and tuck Oh, go for you allow you to love people. They just cook up meat, you know for them is probably the best.

Bryan Krahn

But yeah, but you also have what have some carbs. I think it’s usually probably depends on the breed. But it’s like, you know, you know? Yes, sweet potato I know is good. Not corn. I don’t know. But the reason why dogs are freaking fat is because my kid you know, he’s got his Eggo waffles watching Spongebob and then of course he’s got ADHD like dad so we Dog weights it’s like Alright, you’re you build meth head you’re gonna get bored

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, it is interesting how different breeds My sister has a corgi and we grew up with corgis, which I love. But there they are. So it sounds typical, but they’re so food motivated. It’s crazy. And you just wonder, like, how did they get there like a byproduct of breeding? Or is it just the fact that they’re just like humans, where they’re just wired for efficiency? And they figure it out? If they just sit next to you and stare at you and bark once in a while, they just get food. And they don’t even have to move. So it’s like an efficiency thing? I don’t know.

Bryan Krahn

Well, you always hear out there say, well, we bred the aggression out of the shift. Wow. To me right. Yeah, no, I think I think there is a breed trait there. I mean, I think the even my last two dogs by like Maverick was not really into food. Really? Yeah. Like, like, you get up into food of goose tried to eat his food. Okay. Yeah. But it was just there for the taking and be like, Man, you know, whereas I guess that’s why cuz she would eat everything. So I get it. That’s why.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I’ve seen some people who have dogs where they just leave food out all day. And I’m like, the dog doesn’t need all of it. They’re like, No, just goes and eats whatever it wants. And then just like, wow,

Bryan Krahn

yeah, but there’s And therein lies another thing like goose does that. As big as she is we put out our food and she’ll eat chili. We usually top it with like, you know, a little bit of meat or whatever. Or whatever. So eat that when there’s a leave the rest like she’s on a some hunger strike. Because she knows. Like, eventually. No, we’re gonna break down and like, Whatever I’ll be whatever, like the gravy train is gonna kick in right now. So and she bags. Thanks for it. So that’s my life.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

If you don’t mind saying we already started recording a while ago anyway, so we’re recording we can edit stuff if you want people. My podcast lately I’ve just heard I talked to Ryan like here and it was just like, random city of just like, Hey, bro, what’s going on? Like, hey, you know this one thing in the gym? And I’m like, Yeah, I figured the podcast is just more like, people get to be a fly in the wall and see the weirdest conversations I have.

Bryan Krahn

I appreciate that. I hope I didn’t say anything. About why No, no do political. Okay, I take it back. Whatever it was

Dr. Mike T Nelson

whatever it was. Don’t sue me. Wasn’t me. Yeah,

Bryan Krahn

that’s right. No, I’m averaging. We’re actually looked at this. today. I’m at about a 60 with 50 year really active.

Oh, dude, that’s crazy.

Bryan Krahn

Yes, a lot. Oh, yeah. And it’s, um, yeah, it’s a lot. So but it’s it’s a lot. What am I trying to say? It’s how it’s, I remember what I when it got really I had a burst, you know, in the fall. And now I was really kind of really anxious about it. Because I’m like, I don’t have time for this. And I’m already my wife already carries the lion’s share. And I’m like, but I just I kind of told myself I can. This isn’t rocket science, you know? Yeah, do this. I could do this. And I believe once this becomes my new normal, I’m like, then when it goes down again, as it always does, I’ll have all this free time,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

right? How’s that working out? That’s how I told myself that one’s too. It didn’t work.

Bryan Krahn

I know, just I got the added stress of like, you know, when you’re really busy on your home job, home based job, and it’s a it’s a weird, okay, think of it like, because I had my father in law here for a long time. And you know what, all he sees is, oh, I’m up, you know, in my sweats up in my office, you know, farting around a computer?

Yeah, fart around, like if you’re probably you know, watching hockey or hockey porn. You know, and I’m trying to tell him like, you know, it’s not do lots of work. It’s just kind of weird. It’s like, well, you know, it must be nice to be able to get up, you know, whenever you want. And I’m like, I’m like, Dude, what is the last time I’ve got I get a 430. Because what because what I want, like, anyway, but yeah, man, it’s some. It’s good. It’s good. I’m just trying to be able to streamline my systems a bit. I used to have an extra check in process that was really, I really liked it. And I got more information, but it was just a redundancy. And I put a lot of onus on the clients. That’s, you know, in retrospectives. I’m glad I’m glad I got rid of it. Because it was a bit of an ask.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

You do check ins once a week, then now or what was the extra one?

Bryan Krahn

Well, I know I do once a week check in. But if they’re recording their metrics, and their food and everything, I don’t really need them to do much like beyond. Yeah, you know, so but before I had an extra, I had them do that. But then I had to do an extra check in, like, just a pardon. That’s just a Google Doc. Hmm. And there’s a lot of information that I was getting through the software already. But they’re also asking, just like, how you doing how you feel?

You know? Yeah. Um, and it was, you know, and when people were, most of them were just responding to their give me lots of info like, oh, this happened in my life. And because that’s my shtick. Is I programmer and stuff like that? Yeah. You know, it’s like a no, yeah, yeah. So it’s like a pocket nosy. But it’s just like, you know, if you’re,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

yeah, have a big stressor happens, you want to know about it. And it’s like, you know, early on, like, they’d miss three sessions, and I was an idiot and be like, What is going on? You missed three sessions. And I did that to someone months. And she’s like, Yeah, my grandpa just died is like, oh, shit, I’m a moron. I’m sorry. Maybe I should change my tact and be like, hey, just checking to see what’s going on. Because like, you don’t know what’s going on. It’s online. And you you know, in person, you can kind of see their face and how they move and you have a good idea. But online, you don’t you have no idea. You know, and I’m like, I should probably just ask.

Bryan Krahn

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but that is the biggest thing that that I miss, like, when you see when you see somebody, even if you only saw them once a week, you know, obviously check out their physique and their formula, but you just see their face. Like they look totally. Yeah, if someone is stressed and just kind of get that wide.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, exactly. It’s like this, probably you need something a little bit different. So why not? It’s called Well, I mean, you know, it is so it’s, it’s always, you know, I don’t I don’t think much of coaching. That is just telling people, Hey, you gotta you got to hit the targets better. You got to hit the targets better.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

You don’t even try harder, bro.

Bryan Krahn

Exactly. Track harder next week, like, right? Like, you know, and I, you know, I’m always trying to like, okay, how can I help you hit these targets? Where should I change these targets? You know? So I much prefer the later stages of coaching when they’re hitting the targets. And yeah, you know, well, yes, but yes, and no, like, if someone’s not hitting the targets, like, oh, fuck,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

you know, right. You know,

Bryan Krahn

it’s not working. Well, how many days a week? Did you hit it while you do it once amonth? Yeah, it’s a good start.

Bryan Krahn

But I got some people now just a couple of women. They’re just duds, they’re like 90% Every day, you know, geez, you know. And when they start making progress, that’s when the job starts.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. Do you ever get worried when people are like, hyper compliant, like, if I see people hitting 100, like a new client hitting like, 100% 100%. Like, they never miss a training session. And I know, they’re not gonna step on stage and you know, their underwear in four weeks or something. You know what I mean? Like, I know, they just have like, more of a general goal, which is totally fine. I actually get worried now, because I know that afraid If a wheel comes off, they’re there. Like the blaster does like from Dave Tate. When they’re on they’re on and when they’re off, they are so off. It’s like, go, you know, send a search party to pull him out of whatever cheesecake they fell into.

Bryan Krahn

Well, like I just didn’t, I just went with it. It’s too good. They’re lying. Yeah, that

Dr. Mike T Nelson

or they’re just they have no idea what they’re doing. And they think they’re hitting everything.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, yeah. And they’re just repeating. Yeah. mail it in. Every day is like, Wow, your bag. I got this one guy. It’s just inserting that will start to insult my intelligence. Not that I have that much. But every day is like recording 2400 calories every day. And I’m like, going, like, what? Like, how is that humanly? Yeah, he’s like, Well, I eat the same thing every day. And I’m like, okay, and I’m like, anyway, but the variance would have been minimal anyway. But, um, but yeah, when someone is really hitting it, and things aren’t happening, like, that’s when it gets kind of that’s really interesting. And it’s like, okay, and you know, and you know, they’re reasonably, you know, they’re, there’s no bullshit in the stats. Maybe that’s when it’s like, okay,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

so what do you do then? Like, what do you have like a kind of a order of operation or priority? Or I’m always curious what people do?

Bryan Krahn

Well, it’s always number one is just like, they just forget. So those repeat first repeat the week, you know? Yeah. No, no, no. Yes. It’s usually partly because I’m lazy, but more it’s like, you more often they do something, it gets easier. They feel, you know, they stop thinking about it, you know, and all of a sudden things start happening. So not thinking about it. Unless there’s like a big deadline, then that stress is not going anywhere.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, it gets worse.

Bryan Krahn

So yeah, first, always verify intake and then assist. You know, it really depends, like, the worst is when it’s someone who’s just, you know, there’s no such thing as metabolic damage. There’s definitely metabolisms that have no business being put through a diet again, especially females, like they’ve just got chronic. Just like shit, this stops working.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

And it’s really wacky. Yeah,

Bryan Krahn

you know, and I get a little annoyed about this, I get annoyed by Facebook sometimes,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

like, Are you kidding? Me? I stopped going on there for quite a while because it would just mess me up. Well, you know, you

Bryan Krahn

get these people saying, you know, oh, you’re not in a calorie deficit. You’re not in a calorie deficit. You like it? And 90% of the time? Yeah, they’re not losing weight. They’re not in it. That’s right. Not all the fucking time, dude.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Like, why then like, what’s going on? Right? You know, that’s, that’s my thing. It’s like, okay, I get it, that we lock people in a metabolic chamber, we control everything that goes in and goes out. Yes, calories in calories out works. But that’s a closed environment, like humans walk around doing stuff consciously and unconsciously open environment. So it’s not that they’re trying to lie to you, it’s that there was some downregulation or some change that they have no conscious awareness of. So they’re not trying to make your life hell, they’re not trying to lie to you. They’re not trying to do anything, quote, unquote, wrong or bad. But at the same point, if stuff doesn’t add up, then you know, something’s gotta be going on.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I mean, and it’s, that’s, you know, that’s when it gets difficult because, you know, you know, it might be, you know, there might be something legitimately just their metabolism is just damp, that’s working is dampened. Braska suppress whatever. Yeah, or, you know, and this is more often the case, they’re just they’ve reached a level of burnout, where they’re just eating shit.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

And they just don’t be literal. It’s subliminal, that’s how, yeah, I don’t know.

Bryan Krahn

you know, and then, of course, there’s others like it, it’s medical anomalies that we don’t even fucking consider, like, just, if there’s some, well, obviously, stress, you know, they’re much of fluid. They’re sleeping like shit retaining a bunch of fluid. And I mean, like, there’s people who get like, bizarre infections and stuff, I’ve had these things, you know, like, there’s everything that goes into Mexico, you can’t just always my point is yes, it’s usually they’re not compliant the guy or whatever, or they’re just not in a deficit that the department has to change, but it’s just not always these a little bit of hubris to think that’s always the answer, you know?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. And I mean, most of the time, I don’t know what you’re using, but I’m using like daily bodyweight. Yeah, we know the body weights gonna fluctuate. I know, it’s not a marker for fat loss. Like, I get it, but a measurement that they can get within a couple seconds, that’s reliable, and it’s cheap that we can get daily. It’s a pretty good measurement. Yeah, especially. Yeah, especially over time, because I’m looking at trends over the week, over the month over the year. But then you’ve got things like carbohydrates, you know, changes so glycogen changes, you know, salt changes, fluid changes, try it out and had Chinese last night. So they had like a spike of 3000 milligrams of sodium, but they don’t normally have they got super thirsty so that they freak out because they’re up three pounds now and yeah, yeah.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, that’s my first thing, especially with women if, you know, sometimes they even ask for because they hate the scale. Yeah. Are they are they have no business using the scale? That’s the other they’ve just had, you know, trying to convince them Look, you’re gonna figure out right away that this measurement is goofy. There’s no way you’re getting that that’s can’t be all body value. It’s impossible. Right? Not even that much. And then they’re most we gotta get into it. They’re like, Oh, yeah, this is kind of stupid. You know, and it loses power, but Well, usually. Yeah, no, I’ve had some interesting case. Well, then there’s, well, then there’s the monthly for women, the monthly bill. Yeah, can be, you know, that that can

Dr. Mike T Nelson

be a big swing. Even in smaller females. I’ve seen in some people who are very sensitive. I had like 120 pound female or she would routinely go up three, four pounds like, and sometimes it’d be higher than that even You know,

Bryan Krahn

well yeah, and sometimes the other thing is, I always read these posts from guys say, oh with my client, my female clients, I have them eat more and luteal phase or turn down the dream and I’m just like fuck dude. Don’t you know you ask them how it works for them and work around it, you know? Yeah, let them tell you. But yeah, like they’ll get some get really obviously the chocolate cravings and now obviously that affects intake and I haven’t really played with trading volume I know a lot of McDonald’s being on that highway.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I just don’t I’m not convinced by the data a number two like, I don’t think I’ve ever had a client that’s that dialed into an ad SAS that that’s really gonna matter. And I want to add that much more stress to their life. I just don’t. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t found someone yet where I think it’s worth the added stress, I guess.

Bryan Krahn

No, it’s funny. Our mutual friend, Dr. Dr. Brian Chung, when I when I mentioned Oh, yeah. Yeah. But eventually people are doing that. Yeah. Coaches are programming around the, their menstrual cycle, just like what the fuck things like who are these people? So but I like things like if they know they’re gonna be a lot of it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. And so they tell me, I’m always hungry these days. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, like, but that’s feedback. That makes sense to me. Well, yeah.

Bryan Krahn

Let’s work with it. Okay, let’s, you know, at least then it’s steeped in reality. Yeah. Fuck yeah, there’s, I forget I read miles book, of course on it, but I just Yeah, it’s like, I’m not gonna do this.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I’ve, I had one of the craziest things I had to crazy clients in the past, where you’re just like beating your head against the wall, and you’re going wide, is going on. Like you’ve gotten on the list. You’re tracking their steps. They’re pretty good about tracking calories or sleeps good. Like, they don’t have sleep apnea. I’ve run into that a few times. Oh, one was on blood work. I had this as a female competitor. She was awesome to work with. are looking at her blood work. And I’m like, What the heck. So I sent it to a good buddy of mine. I keep on retainer and Dr. Tommy would shout out to him. Like, Hey, man. What’s going on here? This is wacky, I don’t get it. And he’s like, is she a female cyclist on EPO? I’m like, I know what I was thinking. And she’s a power lifter. No, she’s not any drugs at all. And we later figured out it was sleep apnea. She was getting so APNIC so low and oxygen at night, that her body’s like, oh shit, we need to bump up red blood cell count.

And she was just chronically sleep deprived for years. So we got her sleep studies ended up having a bunch of erotically couldn’t afford any more because she had to have like dental surgery and her whole airway and everything, like reformed. But she had massive sleep apnea. And so I was like, Oh, crap. But if the interesting part is like, if you’d asked her she’s like, I don’t know, I don’t really have anything going on. Like, without the bloodwork. I don’t know if he would have seen it. And er, Doc is like, yeah, she’s fine. I’m gonna go back to your doctor and ask him about this measurement, this measurement and this measurement. And they’re like, Well, it’s a little high, like a little high. It’s like crazy high. So, again, you’d run into this once you got that all started resolved, like her stress got better. HRV scores improved, like everything. Just everything just started working again.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, it’s so it’s interesting, probably, probably in the 1000s listening right now. Yeah. This fucking idiot. Reveley? You know, I’ve got I’ve gotten a lot. What’s the opposite of confident? I don’t know. I’m humbled, I guess. Oh, yeah. You know,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

that’s because you actually work with live humans?

Bryan Krahn

Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, that’s true. But

Dr. Mike T Nelson

compared to a lot of the coaches who profess stuff who have never worked with the human before, which is fine. Just don’t tell me you’re a coach that I don’t care. Well.

Bryan Krahn

Use read loss,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

right. Just tell me you read lots. That’s okay. You have a valid opinion. I just don’t lie to me.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, like I’ve made some like, because I had a sleep apnea bad. Oh, yeah. Especially with my wife who pointed it out and dementia. And I got the study and, and yeah, it’s confirmed and I got the, you know, the apparatus and Norco machine.

I’m cut off of it right now. We’re back on. Now that I’m back in the bed, I’m gonna bring it to the couch. But yeah, and I felt better. And then I started kind of, you know, what’s the word evangelizing or? I don’t know. And it’s this shit works and And then now, um, a lot of people are like, I don’t really notice it, you know, and they’re like, Oh, I just by losing weight, I cleared up my sleep apnea. And now,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

but that happens a lot of times, right? I mean, you have less pressure, you’ve got less weight being pushed on it, like you can totally make a huge difference in some people with that.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. So I made guy made a mistake using my own personal feedback, which was probably heavily biased. Yeah. Because I paid the fucking course of work. You know what I spent for that? And I did that push it out to people. But, I mean, obviously, there’s science behind it. It’s not voodoo. But so that’s kind of a little bit egg on my face in that and steps. I used to make fun of that stuff counting.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Oh, I think that’s one thing I actually got right. early on. I had old school pedometers before people had watches and stuff. And I used to get so much shit for that. Probably. But I’m like, probably review. Yeah. But I’m like, it’s cheap way to measure energy output. People are like, No, it doesn’t matter. I’m like, Yeah, because it’s an unconsciously regulated thing. Like, without a measurement. Clients are not trying to lie to you, buddy. Right. You’ve you’ve gotten super lean, like you see, you know, Eric helms is saying he’s like, yeah, when I get contest lean, he’s like, I’m doing a lecture, and I’m hanging on the board, because I don’t even want to support my weight anymore. Like, you get super lean and you start slashing people’s calories. They just don’t move. It’s just, that’s how your body works. Thanks. You’re trying to kill it?

Bryan Krahn

Oh, yeah. And I mean, we I always again, myself. Great coach. Work for me is like, I would literally do, okay, I’ve been walking an hour a day, I’ll go down an hour. And I like that kind of shit. I just get the stuffs out way. Just really sloppy. You know, we’re for beat by little world. But you know, so I always kind of when I was getting into coaching, I made fun of it. Make fun of it. I was just like, This is stupid. Just do cardio. Yeah. But no, it makes I will say it’s, you might argue on this. I think when it’s very low. And you look at their stuff carry on Holy shit. Do you don’t move much. And then you correct that. however way you do it. That moves the needle? Oh, 100%. But I’m not not linear. Yeah, I felt like it. Let’s go from 6000 steps to seven. Like that kind of thing. I mean, yeah, it works. But it’s to be it’s not as it’s when they make that initial like, holy shit. I’m a slug. Yeah, you know, and they that, I guess, probably all moves the needle. But that’s what makes the big dramatic one, you know?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. And then there’s ponds or stuff right about the constraint energy hypothesis that you know, once you get above 12 to 15,000 steps per day, going from 15,000 to 20,000 doesn’t seem to make a big difference. And, you know, that makes sense to me, because I’ve had a few clients that just go batshit crazy and think, man, I’m at 15,000. I’m gonna go to 20. And I’m just like, No, I don’t you know, the couple of times I did it, like, you know, anecdotal, didn’t see huge response. And then I was like, walking two and a half hours a day. I’m like, you gotta go to work. What are you doing?

Bryan Krahn

There? I should say, yeah. So I stole from Luke Lehman. Awesome. I

Dr. Mike T Nelson

love Luke. I was at his wedding a couple years ago. total asshole. Yeah. He’s a big brick owner. He’s listening to us. I’ll send them this video.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, yo, yo, everyone, like, not everyone. You know how calorie average works so well, for the week? Obviously a step average for the week. That works really well. Yeah. So he uses 50,000 For the week, which is seven days sometimes a day. Yeah, that’s probably about Yeah, yeah. So I like that. Because then people with normal lives can look and go, Oh, man, I’ve been really sedentary. I’m gonna go take a walk lots over the weekend. And just, I think that the, I think the sweetness to that also to the calories, you know, having them give that little bit of controls just, it’s lower stress again, because we’re always staring at these fucking metrics. Oh, I didn’t hit my step count. Oh, I didn’t, you know,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

gets up at three in the morning to run around the block and goes back to bed. You know?

Bryan Krahn

Like, the stress did like, you know, drinks can use a pop, it’s so it’s like, I don’t you know, you always have to have with the person first and say, Okay, how can I push these things and not stress you out? Make you feel like you’re controlling things, but not things you’re not supposed to control or just does not in you know, you can’t really control all the outcomes or maybe outcomes. So, I mean, that’s where I find coaching is it’s just like, like, knowing which lever to push and then like, is this the right lever for this person? Yeah. You know, so I got, I think that’s kind of the challenge. Well, one of the channels

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I found on step count, like if people hit five to 8000 That’s kind of like my first phase. Yeah, they do they measure. You know, like when I was doing my PhD, I remembered Do my early measurements. I don’t even think I got 2300 steps a day. This is not account training. This is for three days in a row. Because like I would wake up I worked from home I had clients or online. Yeah, my job was online. Like I didn’t take a walk. I don’t even think I went outside. I lifted in the garage and then walk to the friggin gym. And I was like, oh my god, I must slog

Bryan Krahn

everyone else that you see that you’re like, Oh, Christ, then you correct it. Yeah. Well provided the other things are in line. Yeah, you’ll get a bomb. Yeah. So, but it’s a it is cool. I also like it. It’s one of the few lifestyle things, things that were the you know, the soft Weight Watchers, he lifestyle. He thinks this is really good. It’s just useful, you know? So yeah,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I have one client who is a fitness competitor, I was looking at her steps. And she’s like, pre contest, like four weeks out super lean. She, she was already lean before I worked with her. So it’s not like I really did a whole lot. You know, I can take credit for anything. Hosted I look and she’s like, one day she hits like 17,000. I was like, Whoa, I said, what happened? What’s going on? And she’s like, Yeah, I forgot. And I put my Fitbit in the dryer. I was like, Oh, got it.

Bryan Krahn

He’s like, Oh, man. Well, you know, you get those questions like, Okay, what am I gonna, you know, piece of cardio equipment where I’m not really cute learning steps. That’s like, my husband or my wife, just like, you know, the bedroom. How’s that? How does that? Yeah, well, three minutes. With me. It’s three minutes. Here. It was good. Oh, good. Just asked me.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I don’t think we’ll ever get any more time soon where energy export is going to be accurate, right. Um, years ago, when I was with each of our forum, we did an experiment which I was okay to try. Let’s have people eat to what their Fitbit says. And I’m like, this is gonna work for 40 50% and the rest, it’s going to be a disaster. And the people that are going to be a nightmare are the people who gained weight, and they are going to be so confused. That’s exactly what happened. Right? I mean, even indirect calorimetry if you walk around with the thing plastered your face all day, there’s still a big enough margin of error that I don’t think it’s going to be all that useful. You know, like, couple of studies doubly labeled water put people in, you know, respiration, chamber, metabolic chamber, whatever. Yeah, good for studies for a couple of days beyond that, like free living humans, like day to day months over years. I just think we’re so far from having that be accurate.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I just, I tell them just don’t even look at it. Garbage. Yeah. Yeah. Cheap prediction equations. And just Yeah. I mean, it’s more it’s just noise, you know? And yeah, I’m just Well, I guess, I guess the the, you know, you can’t really like can they even do a cardio a piece of cardio equipment that does that accurately? It’s, I think they’re all just based on, like, equations based on marathon runners. I read somewhere.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, treadmills are pretty horrible. treadmills, like in the literature are by far the worst. Yeah. If you have a name brand, like some of the rogue the concept, two rowers are relatively close, because you know the distance and you know, kind of the machine. So it has to be specific to the machine. But again, that can be different by you know, the mechanical efficiency of the rower, obviously, a six foot six, you know, elite rower versus a five foot five person who’s never done it, like there’s going to be a pretty big difference between those two. So, again, you’re back to just I tell people like, yeah, if you want to log it from that machine, great. Keep track of it. So we can compare. But other than that, like, even on rowing, I just have people charging average watts, like, I just want to know your output for you. That’s fine. If you go up great. You’re better. That’s all I care about. I’m not trying to fit that accurately into some equation somewhere.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I’ll use it in that respect, like, yeah. And then just keep it consistent and read. Yeah. But I don’t use it as a thing with the word is like, Okay, we’re gonna adjust your diet based upon, right. Like, no, I mean, it’s interesting, though. I mean, so much the numbers. So what are just, you know, this is more your department than mine, but they’re just way too soft. Like, there’s just way too. You know, they’re just not accurate enough. But I mean, if they’re consistently inaccurate and over the totality of like a diet, it doesn’t matter as much I get that. That’s why they’re so useful with these folks who are just put so much stock in what that label reads.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I’ve had those people I have a couple of them more in the past. Not so much now. Am I a little triggered? do with them on vacation is like, Okay, you’re going on vacation, like okay, just number one, try to eat like a normal human. Like just get some protein in. You know, don’t go to, you know, face down on the, you know, banana pina coladas, like for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and get up in the morning, go for a walk. If you can do some exercise without stressing you out great. Sleep as much as humanly possible. Throw your Fitbit in the trash don’t wear it. And most of the ones were just like hyper, like numbers based. Like the four of them I had in the past came back. Every one of them lost one to four pounds in a week on vacation.

Bryan Krahn

No, it always well, yes. So many things like Yeah, but they’re going from like where you are. I am some place hot. Summer warm. Yeah.

Bryan Krahn

That’s, you know, so you get a boost the metabolism and just, you’re on vacation, you’re less stress. I mean, they’re just decompressing and that affects waves. Asleep. Yeah. I know. It’s just I guess that’s I, as the more I do this longer I do this. I just, I’m less not less sure about just less like, alright, you know, I’m, I’m skeptical of everything. I don’t get blown away in seminars anymore. Like the first time you go to a strength seminar or nutrition one, you’re like, holy shit. Oh, yeah. Now you’re just like, okay, just don’t fucking try to bullshit me, you know?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I remember the first time I got the Poliquin principles. I was like, 93 got a mold, something like that. And I remember thinking, oh my god, there’s something besides three by 10 Right now knowing that the Lord discovered that 19 But fucking 48 or something, you know? I’m like, Oh, 10 by three. This is insane.

Bryan Krahn

I remember going to wait, why share Apollo good seminars. And I remember be I’d come back just completely like this up, change it out, do in shape change. I train on changing, you know. But the worst is always stuff like the Swiss symposiums where you get like, the panels. Here’s, yeah, I’d come back with all these ideas. And I forget the last one. I went to what I was, I just go like, Okay, I still want to be bored. Yeah. But yeah, but I’m just a lot more humble when I when, you know, it’s like, I don’t know everything man. And like, there’s things going on and metabolisms are goofy, and people are fucking strange. And, and there’s so much machinery in the way that stress affects everything, not just on like, like, that’s probably the biggest thing is weight obviously affects you know, hunger, energy cravings, everything. And it just affects the muscle building process and how they progress. And I don’t know if it affects how Bo does affect digestion, obviously, big time. Does that affect like, the actual absorption of calories? I don’t know. Probably. That’s, yeah, read on, like a fuck probably.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. So do you measure HRV? Or any markers of stress, then?

Bryan Krahn

Well, though, that’s what’s gonna jump in with you on I, you know, I look if they want to share it, I look at it, but I don’t. I don’t like, I don’t run my business on it. I don’t run it. Yeah. So I mean, you know, I think I talked to you while ago about, yeah, you’re kind of like you’re still using, but you kind of just cut out, back off a little bit.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I use it on most people, but I’m not as adamant where you absolutely have to do it. And I did that for a while just because I wanted to. I wanted people to know, that’s what I did. So it was part of the deal. Right now, if the clients I have now probably 95% of them do it. Right. And the ones who don’t are pretty advanced, where I can kind of trust their feedback, and I can look at their metrics. I’ve worked with them long enough to know what’s going on. But even I still people give me shit. They’re like, you still do HRV every morning, you don’t ask, don’t you know anything about your body? It’s like eight and a half years later. I’m like, yeah, like 90% of the time. I pretty much know. But there’s, there’s just weird, unconscious shit that happens, that it’s happened enough to me and clients where I think it’s useful. Because those are the times like stuff doesn’t make sense. Yeah. Right. And I’m like, if I like I was in Costa Rica A while ago, my HRV was just like, I’m a ski slope just down. Yeah. And I don’t know. You know, it’s because of the stuff I did there was I got sick towards the end, I was gonna be quarantined. I didn’t know how long I was gonna be there. And there’s like so many factors. It’s hard to know. But knowing that it was going on and then the second I got home, literally my HRV went up 21 points. Yeah. And so in hindsight, I think I probably got a little bit of a cold or something going on. That’s the negative for COVID Ironically, so PCR even though I got a positive antigen Got stuck there. But I think I was subconsciously more worried about getting home. And the second I was home like, okay, good, everything’s cool. We’re all good. But I would not, I don’t think I would have picked that up otherwise. Okay, you know, I would have just been like, I don’t know, it stuffs weird. I can’t figure it out.

Bryan Krahn

Well, that’s yeah, like, that’s where I see the utility is just like when your things are going on in your life. And you look okay, what’s, how does this reflect on my HRV? Like it? So I think there’s a ton of utility to that, but it’s just what I use that then, like, in the reverse helped me out here. What am I trying to like what I used to be prescriptive with?

Yes, when I wake up

Bryan Krahn

and say, okay, my HRV is low. I feel great by each of these low fuck that I in training. No, I mean, I think that’s right. You know?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. So I think you have to use again, the averages. And then. So for example, like people are like, Oh, but what if HRV? is like, good all the time? Do you do anything different? And I’m like, Yeah, I push the shit out of their training volume. Because they can handle it. If their HRV is high, especially, let’s say they’re a power lifter, right? You don’t need a an HRV of 90 or 100, and a resting heart rate of 43. Right, you could probably give up some of that and get more training volume, push some higher intensity work. So in some people, I will push their training environment chronically, almost keep them there. And their HRV scores will be much worse, but not to the point where they still can’t recover from the training. Yeah. So I think that, to me, is where it’s useful, because you know, you’ve worked with enough people like, on paper, you can have two athletes where you’re like, Man, these two people are the same. And one of them for whatever reason, just recovers faster than the other one, like no drugs, like, same thing, like everything is reported the same, right, at least as far as I know. Maybe the ones line I don’t know. Yeah, that’s yeah, never happens. Never happens. And I’ve seen this with intensity. Like I do this experiment. Once in a while, I had a natural bodybuilder, pretty high level guy. He was just getting the shit kicked out of him all the time, like super diligent, super smart dude, finishing his PhD in the field was coaching people. And so we did a little test. And when he would do like, even a triple, like good form, not a grinder, like he would do that for like three sets, like his HRV would be tanked for 48 hours. But yet, he could go to the gym and do 30 to 40,000 pounds of volume on mostly compound, lifts higher rep rate. And he could go back and train like five days a week was HRV would be like, almost the same. He was like a freak in terms of volume, I think that he can handle and recover from, but high intensity stuff just would tank him for like two or three days. I’ve seen the inverse on that, too. I’ve seen like high volume stuff, just very some people, but they could do like, you know, high percentage of 90% of one RM stuff, like, at a ridiculously high rate with good form. And like two days later be like, I’m good to go again.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, you know, I just that’s where I always go back to, you know, showing my age. I go back to the training log man. Yeah. You know, it’s it only tells your story. But, but that’s all the client cares about anyway?

Bryan Krahn

I don’t know. No. And I have no shame in asking, I go, Well, let’s go through the stuff we’ve done with you already. Like, let’s this stuff that worked and you felt great on you know, we’ll change it. But let’s, because that’s that’s what worked, what we felt we found that’s that’s all that matters, you know, like that training log that has, you know, people, that’s me, that’s one good thing we’re only online tracking is that people are being a little more methodical with that. But yeah, training log that has all the like, that tells you, to me that reflects with our lifestyles, like, you know, obviously they’re, you know, what, what, so much beyond than just like the loading parameters that’s like, cave, what was going on in your life when that was kicking ass when that program is working? And it just Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the most powerful tool that you can use, like that the client can use and that obviously coach can refer to

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I mean, that’s what’s been nice as I mean, I’m biased I use true coach now. So I can track all the volume and know everything clients are doing. And that’s been super helpful. And I have little assessments will drop in there once in a while. But in the past, like trying to get photos of it and trying to get an update a spreadsheet and all this other stuff, like you could do it and there’s definitely motivated people that would but it’s much easier. Now. Granted, I got my training drill on the other side of the computer, I just like to write everything down on pen and paper. I think I’ve got like all my original training journals for like, way too long. I don’t know what the hell I’m ever going to do with them but

Bryan Krahn

still a man so fellow Yeah, no one’s gonna wanna I know and obviously, I have all my clients that are there. Yeah. And it just, it just makes such a huge difference. You know, I never you know, I try to do obviously stick with you know, not giving the same face all the time and you know, But as I’ve, again, I, as the populations I work with change now I’m looking at stuff like first he’s always keen what’s your, when we’re looking at your training? What’s your life gonna be like here? You know, okay, yeah. And what are your other competing interests? You know, that’s kind of like the mother thing. You know, I guess that’s the new sport, if you want to say like, if, okay, your life is gonna be like this now, like, that’s okay, that’s gonna be the defining goal. And, okay, how do I adjust the training to, to suit that? So? Yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s so that I refer back to their previous programs for guidance in that regard. But I find the see even the seasons of the year. And the way that they can offer to is similar to what life is like, especially they have kids and families and school and stuff like that. All that kind of factors into the program design.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, and I, I talked about Ryan on this on the podcast, too, that the one the mistakes I made in the past was I I felt like if every six weeks, I didn’t completely change something, they would fire me and think that I was an idiot. Yeah. And like, that was probably the biggest mistake I could have made because a lot of times, it was working. They weren’t complaining, they had enough novelty. And so now, I sometimes feel like I’m almost making their life good so far the other way, like, their programs tend to look very similar. But it you know, right, it’s, it’s different to look at a program on paper and you’re like, shit, nothing changed. But then when you execute the program for a week, you’re like, Oh, I’m sore here. It wasn’t sore there. That was a lot harder than I thought just changing a rep range makes a difference. Like once you’ve experienced it for a week it it does feel different enough, I think for most people to keep them progressing. But I think I just I did way too much novelty to their detriment, unfortunately, like years ago when I started.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I used to it still. You know, I still have probably a lot of quite a few new clients will be like Okay, so I’ve been doing this program when do I get my next one? And I’m my answer is I always feel like a Dixon one. This one stops working. I like it. No, no, I literally say like, okay, everything feels good. Yeah, pressing and you want to change it? Yeah. So now I know my kind of thing is all big a ton of changes at first like you’re like okay, I hate that this hurts this I don’t have this and good you get to and then all sudden is a cake. Now justice focus on progress. More rap mean, one more just and then if my line is if we never have to change this and you just keep pushing the progress meter your fuck, you know, send me a million dollars. I just changed your life. Like this is like yeah, one, you know, obviously never last forever. But that should be the goal is just a work. Because the longer you work it and you’re making progress. Those are like the fucking games that matter. Like, yeah. So you know, a little bit of novelty. Yeah, of course, like a vacation workout or whatever. Whatever. Yeah. But yeah. So I so that’s kind of my shtick is that I look at their life. Okay, okay, you’re gonna, it’s tax season, and you’re super busy. You’re an accountant. I’m not gonna give you a five day weekend. Give me three days. Yeah, you know, then when you’re out of that, okay, now I’ll do a bit of a more, you know, now I’ll change the program a little bit more, you’re in a different phase in life, okay. And it’s, you know, 12 weeks, so you go away, or Yeah, to go into family. So then, but you have this relatively uninterrupted time, okay, we’ll push the volume a bit, you know, and then we’ll just try to get to the sweet spot right away, you just work, the pro working progress. And then the next big life change, that’s when the program change. I just find that’s just just the more for people who aren’t competing in a sport or getting on stage,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

right? Yeah. But most of them like you have. I even use HRV this way. So initially, with HRV, I was like, Ah, I feel like a high level athlete just gonna be great. Like, you know, power lifters I like, change their D load from, you know, seven days to 14 days. And it was like, amazing, you know, because they were just never recovered the whole time. And I’m like, well, maybe I just want more data. So I’ll just have everyone start doing HRV. And I thought that it’s like gonna be useful and everyone else, but what I found was people who were not really super competitive, it was all the lifestyle stuff. That was like screwing them up. Yeah. And so their HRV would tank because of a lifestyle issue, or the higher lifters that had their lifestyle kind of an order in order to get to that most of them not all of them was trained volume. But for someone whose lifestyle is a Trashman fire, like the thing that they can probably change the fastest it’s going to save them and not you know, completely, you know, bury their dick in the sand is their training.

Bryan Krahn

You know, I don’t I know it’s a, isn’t it? That’s another part of Vegas. Hubris. Just like okay, we’re gonna, you know, oh, yeah, just just the pro For me to say you’re maximizing progress, and meanwhile their fucking life is

oh, is it does after

Bryan Krahn

me like oh yeah, we’re gonna manage your stress or to take you for like yo sets of fours I bring you back up to eight because I want to manage your stress, whatever, you know, just be while they’re there dumpster fire life and they’re just you know, or they’re not sleeping well or I shouldn’t say dumpster fire is a little over the top but like even just like when COVID ban like, no, the, you know, not like the drinking like holy shit. Like, you know, my clients are selling. Not all my clients drugs

Dr. Mike T Nelson

are in Canada. That’s partly why so

Bryan Krahn

I’m in Canada, I’m a drunk, but no. No, I mean, it’s it just, it’s just bad. It’s the amount of people who have like, not a couple glasses of wine tonight. That used to be the odd person now that’s like, I know seems to be the overwhelming majority. And Greg has not drunk but it’s it’s enough to completely nuts completely screw things up. But it’s enough to affect things. So

Dr. Mike T Nelson

yeah, and a lot of times I’ll I thought like a shill for HRV. But you’ll find in their HRV like I’ve had some people were one drink, they’re fine. Two drinks, just bam, it just tanks. And even like the type of alcohol matters, like the type of wine or the wine is from. Like, I used to think that like clear, alcohol wasn’t as bad but then I found people who tequila would just completely tank them and vodka would be fine. And then the next time it would be the inverse. I’m like, I don’t know. It just seems to be so variable from one to the next.

Bryan Krahn

Well, I know and I always do a massive eye roll guys, I will subtract the calories from carbs and fat and working like you fucking idiot if that’s not the point.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

In your for Budweiser is that night.

Bryan Krahn

You didn’t do the calorie hygiene was great, you know, but now, you know, you’re you’re suppressing testosterone, but back and asleep and there’s stress and there’s cravings, and there’s fluid issues and and just can’t express power as well. And obviously the mood and the next day and it’s it’s always the other things associated with drinking, you know, and if it’s a social drinking, then the eating like everything else is beyond the calories. You know, that’s you know, that’s that’s why it’s it’s an issue. I mean, it’s great that you can work it into the diet, bro. But that’s, you know, that’s not that’s not the reason why it’s screwing everybody out.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I used to be sneaky with clients I know, especially male clients, the past two would go out on Friday night. This one guy was arguing with me pass flying is like, ah, but I need to know exactly how many calories those three beers are. I’m like, okay, so this is the third Friday in a row. This has happened. Tell me about your Friday night. And it always involves going out to the bar with his buddies to one of the morning, having three beers and then eventually broke down and said, Well, we had half a pizza and then we had chicken wings. Then we had to redoes the cheese on them. And you know everything else that went into it. I’m like, the three beers is probably like the least of your worries. Yeah. And so then I started programming like high repetition squats like Saturday morning. So I would say nothing about what he did Friday night. And I would just look to see if he train Saturday morning or

Bryan Krahn

oh man like a 7am like workout that’ll get you quick booze man. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s like, yeah, you’re drinking obviously there’s a calories then you’re eating shitty food. And then you don’t sleep? Well. Yeah, no cover well, and, you know, then your cravings the next day, you know, and then you’re probably moody. So then you’d add even more stress. You know, it’s just it’s, you know, the low hanging fruit I guess is the actually calories. The booze is everything else that’s related to

Dr. Mike T Nelson

it. Yeah, and then the interest is like, again, years ago, I I went through the phase probably in college, I drank more than I should definitely. And then I was started training harder, got a job and I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna quit drinking. Oh, you know, it’s bad. It drops testosterone, you read too many studies and it goes to your head, you know. And I remember going to a powerlifting gym and seeing like, these just huge, like sides of beef with eyes like doing strong man, like, you know, pulling 600 pounds, like for the warm ups and just crazy shit. And I went there on a Friday night and like, it was a private own place. And they would have beer when they were training. And I was like, Oh, my God, what’s wrong? And then you find out like, some of these people are like, you know, top competitors in the state in the US and I’m like, Okay, so maybe having a beer once in a while. isn’t as bad as I thought it was, you know, like it doesn’t seem to be hindering their progress.

Bryan Krahn

No, no, it’s not exactly crashing their T levels. It’s always like everything, man. It’s like It’s the it’s everything wrapped into it and how, you know how bright like how it ripples into the rest of life? One beer while you’re doing Come on, I mean, it’s always like, it’s the multiples and everything related to it. And, you know, I find me it’s very easy to get caught it oh, you know, you did this one thing. Oh, but it’s it’s, it’s everything else is kind of related.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. And do you think like kind of just your passion and your willingness to just I call it like violent consistency just do the work like day in and day out like just Trump’s so much stuff. I mean, I did a group competition last October, my buddy Adam glasses place and we went down there. And, you know, I always love lifting with those guys, because it’s just so humbling, like the two top people for, you know, some of the lifts, I’m competing in their weight class. So of course, I got demolished but yeah, we’re in they’re like drinking and like their arm wrestling. And just one guy’s shown other guy how to rip a deck of cards, like half drunk at like two o’clock in the morning. You know, that was great. It was fun. But these guys live like, like, consistent, like, almost literally every day, like high quality work. And that’s what they’ve done for like friggin decades.

Bryan Krahn

Well, yeah, and like when it’s, you know, when you when you lift with such skill and such passion, and it’s like such second nature, and, you know, then like, that’s so much different, you know, you know, that someone is still, you know, they just don’t have that, uh, that skill set yet, you know, yeah, you know, it’s, or they were just that, I don’t wanna see passion, because that sounds so frivolous, but it’s just like that, that to develop,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

it’s like an unconscious attention to detail, not like an over the top, maddening way where you’re neurotic. But you’re almost neurotic. But it’s just part of what you do, there’s not the stress that’s associated with it, it just becomes the pattern that you execute over and over and over.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, and you’ve done it with skill for so long. And that’s such a high level, so consistently, and you’ve built this strength and this base that you can, now you’ve got all that. So now you can fuck around and find out kind of thing, you can go and you can have a few beers while you lift. And of course, this will rip the weights and pull because you’ve got that you’ve earned that privilege, you know, but that hard, consistent work. And, you know, I think so many people, you know, you got to get there, you know, you got to get there. And like, where they know, the people who reach that level where they bunks the whole time to get there No, but SEC consistency of effort and getting that, that level of competency and strength and just the ability to like you just to be on and express strength and to, you know, you spot a confident lifter. Even in bodybuilding, just Oh, sure. You’re just like the confidence and and you just get that you’re doing those people then can like, oh, man, I went on Friday, you know? You that, you know, but not not everyone, not most, it takes a long time.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

So is there any way to, to I don’t wanna say short circuit that but I can’t think of a way to speed up the process, right? Because I think I have a discussion, I’ll same question to you is that so we’ll use the stereotypical male, right, 23 years old, you know, kind of made it through college done some lifting relatively somewhat successful. It seems to me, it’s almost impossible to talk him out of making some grave errors. Like they’re just going to make errors. They’re going to get injured at some point. And I used to spend all this time trying to convince them to be like, Hey, look at this guy and look at all the idiot stuff I did and a doesn’t seem to work. So now I’m just like, what’s the smallest error or injury they can end up with? That they’ll learn from? Like, can you put the car in the ditch and not drive it off the cliff?

Bryan Krahn

Well, yeah, because if you know, I think I got quoted in Lucia Schuler quoted me an article this. I said ago, if I’d never lifted a barbell I’ve never been to do

you’d ever been watching if I’ve never lifted Oh, never been injured. Yeah.

Bryan Krahn

But finally lifted with cables and you know, dumbbells, never, you know, partly because I trained a bit safe, but you just like how it’s just not seeing the barbell lifts are dangerous. All right. But I’m just saying like, that’s over time. If you want things to go wrong, a higher risk. Yeah. So but if you train at a level where you’re going to make progress, and consistently what you should be doing, you know, in my opinion, you get eventually you’re gonna get injured. So like, what is the you know, you know, you’re gonna get something usually it’s, you know, how to this usually is the shoulder or the elbow. If you’re genetically gifted, though, and you got those and it’s got those joints. I can just fucking take it. You can go really far, you know, and you’re not super stupid with your programming. You know, you can go far, but most people especially can get something and then just learn not to work through pain. You know, that’s that’s to me is just it. You know if anyone can learn anything, just don’t work through pain, do something else. Yeah, it’s similar. You don’t have to go fucking hole, but just like to stop whatever you’re doing and do something else said never gets better never gets better.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I mean rarely. I mean, I would ask them and I’d be curious in your thoughts 90% of the people I know who got injured, there was some warning sign, like you only hear of the things where there was a catastrophic injury that happened in those things happen. Yep. People tend I would say most of the time, there was some warning sign, they just ignored it. I know, almost all my injuries, especially non context stuff. Yeah, like 100%.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, and, you know, surely Gen pop is always shoulder, you know, you know, I mean, shoulders jacked out, and you’re programming this three, four to one, pushing, pulling. And even good programming, though, and you start putting on heavy weights, you know, and you don’t even even if you’re avoiding, like the behind the neck pressing, and you’re doing doing everything even pretty smart from the get go. Once you start putting up big weights, he will save exercises. There’s only so much depending on your genetics, there’s only so much the sun’s gonna start to grind down. And I just think if you if you stop at that point where the knee, you know, get some treatment, you know, you can really extend things, but most people just don’t.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Do you find like upper back like talking about ratio of pressing the polling? Do you find that most people can do a lot more back and pulling especially upper back than they think like I switched my programming four years ago, like we’re most people, not even general population. I think if they’re lifting Monday, Wednesday, Friday, they’re probably doing a back exercise for one, two or three exercises. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and I’m talking more upper back not necessarily low back.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it definitely. Quite honestly, you never, you never wrote too much. Right? Yeah,

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I find it’s like the almost everyone has that capacity. And it just seems like knock on wood. I’ve had, luckily very few shoulder injuries and I don’t know if it’s related to that, or I just got lucky or what but

Bryan Krahn

yeah, like if that’s why that would program now I program safe for other people. I’m saying like, out of the gate like, Yeah, boy, that’s, you know, like, just why wouldn’t I? Why wouldn’t I get somebody who has a body composition goal? Like not a strength goal? Why wouldn’t I rely more on dumbbells? Like, why wouldn’t I put it like, it’s, you know, let’s, let’s say really like, and even then I’ll talk them out of it if they love barbell bench that much, you know. Yeah, so I mean, but I do think I think the ratio isn’t the kind of it’s a little bit overstated. There’s such a depends on the person and depends on Sure. You know, let’s, yeah, I mean, if you if you build a program around rowing, that’s, that’s your, you’re not gonna get, you’re gonna have a very a much more balanced person, typically.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I’m of the opinion now that I think the one arm dumbbell row from a split stance where you let your shoulder go all the way down safely, you build up to that progression over time. You can pull some pretty heavy weights for high reps in that position where you’re stabilizing yourself without pain. I just feel that’s just like such an underrated exercise for almost like everybody.

Bryan Krahn

Yep. Yeah. Oh, Island. I probably have 100 rowing variations. I mean, I just, yeah, I just say, Yeah, I guess you can get you can get elbow issues, of course, but

Dr. Mike T Nelson

you get you’re gonna get some overuse stuff. I agree.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. But, um, yeah, I mean, that’s such a blanket recommendation that actually works.

Yeah. There’s very few of those.

Bryan Krahn

So, but no, it is interesting. Just, you know, I don’t think any lifts Well, there’s a handful of that are inherently bad. But they’re, you know, the most, you know, there’s some that are just like, I just don’t see the point. That to connect the goal, like if you can give access to heavy dumbbells, and you’re in this for the long run, and again, you just want to look good, and we’re like Jack like, why wouldn’t you chase and not even just heavier weights, like just chase repetitions on dumbbell pressing, like do that?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

What kind of pressing like you’re talking benchpress you did press Like what are your favorites?

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, like I like a like kind of a medium incline. Semi suit like neutral grip, dumbbell press. I like that very the incline depending on the on the person and like to me, that’s my favorite, probably chest lift her pressing left. But of course, that’s great too. But, you know, obviously the neutral grant or semi supinated That’s just his his foolproof programming like, you know, very hard to get injured doing that. I mean, I’m sure some of you but

Dr. Mike T Nelson

do you find like using like a 1530 degree incline? I actually like a 15 degree incline but that’s just my bias. I like whatever they haven’t done in a while. Yeah, variety.

Bryan Krahn

I just think that’s a such an easy again, easy lever to push. Okay, you know they’re doing the exercise are comfortable. I gotta change something. Okay, let’s do this, you know, like that’s, that’s one of my favorite kind of solid progressions, stuff like that. You know, not a lot of direct over the head. Well, maybe, you know, not really even. I don’t do much of that. And they’re never the barbell. But I do like a Viking Press with a landmine. That is a good,

that is awesome. That is probably my favorite old man’s shoulder.

Bryan Krahn

It’s always got a shoulder press. That’s back. That’s good one. Yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Do you do it with the landmine on the floor? Do you use like the little pipe attachment to bring the pivot point up higher? No lamb on the floor. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I’ve done both. And I actually like if you can get access to it, there’s a little pivot pipe where you can put it on the side, and then put the pivot point. Almost like nipple high or chest high. So if you have long arms like I do, then to me that feels like it’s a little bit better. But yeah, either version, I think is I was surprised like, I got a Viking handle probably three years ago. Yeah. And I was like, Damn, I should have bought this like, way sooner than what I did.

Bryan Krahn

Well, while I swear and again, it’s just me, but I swear repaired my shoulder. Oh, nice. Yeah, like it just nothing was ever that bad. Well, you know, we get some arthritis in there and some scar tissue and many hours VRT on it. And I haven’t had a session AR T and god knows how long well not for that. One part, your job is a great man. But no, and I like doing them with like, kind of like hypertrophy clusters like six sets of six with second rest. Bandits. That’s to me, that’s fun programming. So because I can still get kind of get my meathead on because you know, it’s making press fun. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Liking press. How can it not be cool?

Bryan Krahn

You know, and it’s good. Some of the weights aren’t that big. But it’s, it’s Yeah, that’s a great lift.

On the other favorite lifts.

Bryan Krahn

For no, like, I keep giving you these old man lifts like neutral grip dumbbell pressing, and yeah, I yeah, I mean, I like I think everyone I level bandless Because they’re old man for reason. They’re like that. Oh, any, like we mentioned rowing, I really like, just very like variations of the lat pulldown

Dr. Mike T Nelson

are like one arm to arm different handles.

Bryan Krahn

Yep, one arm and standing One Arm Row table against sporty split stance. And again, for some variety, because you can just change the height of the pulley. Those are some favorites. But my favorite more like to be honest, is once I have my favorites, everyone does like that. But I like more now to play with. Again, I mentioned like different forms of cluster training.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

So how do you define cluster training for people who may not have heard that term before?

Bryan Krahn

Okay, well, there’s well there’s straight closer never informed. So yeah, like there’s the old poppin like the gift the exact name Pokemon closers. Like you know, sets of one with you know, five seconds rest in between five sets of five of that. That’s one cluster there’s the threes for the call. Those are reduce three raps. Wait five seconds do three more apps. With I think it’s about your five RM wait. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So but what I like just a is is like six by six. So use about your 10 to 12 RM do six reps, rest. 10 seconds. Do six reps rest 10 seconds. You do that six times.

Oh, Jesus.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, it’s Yeah. So it’s it’s intensive. And it’s kind of like Rhonda, huh, eight by eight, right? Yeah, well, it might Yeah. But you know, as you can see, things start to blend together. Yeah, no. I get then there’s Scott Stevens. He had muscle rounds, which is six by four. Yeah, yeah. No, all variations of the same thing. And it’s just like it’s a you know, it’s a reasonably heavy load. Take it to you know, you’re using a 10 to 12 RM you’re taking the six wraps. I mean, you got a lot left to the tank. But you know, as these lift these mini sets accumulated the fatigue that accumulates That’s exactly, exactly. So you get to use kind of baby weights. So it’s safe, not be, you know, no lower weights, but you push them to the provided your weight selection is good. And you figure that out relatively quickly push into the red, usually in that last set, and then when also when you’re unsuccessful, let’s say you only did you know you did six by six the four times. Now, excuse me, the main skill sets you did you did six reps for four sets.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

You only got four on your last time you’re saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Bryan Krahn

that easier. So let’s say you only got four reps of your last two sets. Got it? You went 6666. Then four, four, you hit the bed. Now, you know, next week, okay, what my goal is I want to see if I can get six by six. I’m sorry, I’m, I know I came up terribly messy there. Got it. But see it, that’s when you reach that point, takes a couple of workouts to get there. But then you’re like, Okay, now I got this carrot that I’m chasing, it’s very easy to visualize. And it’s like, and then you get to that you’re successful. Yeah, little bit of weight. And you’ll probably drop back down to maybe you get six reps, the first three sets and then keep progressing. It’s really fun. Again, you have to get to that. You know, your wait selection is a great bit of trial and error to get there. But then it is fun, easy to chase. And, and it fucking kicks your ass too. I thought I’m gonna have to try that out. Yeah, it’s great. Like, yeah, so hopefully I explained that for reasonably well, because yeah, yeah, I can. That the muscle round weighs six sets of four. Okay. But I find going up to six was a little bit better than me. That’s just me and my clients. But it’s it’s a little bit. Yeah. You just a little bit more volume. But

Dr. Mike T Nelson

hold on. Scott is a crazy bastard. Yeah.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, he probably didn’t know he didn’t even cluster training either. I mean, I mean, I think it was around in the 50s. Or

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I’m trying to think of who was the first person who did cluster training? And I don’t know, to be honest.

Bryan Krahn

I learned it from Poliquin. But yeah, he said he didn’t invent it. He said. So who the fuck knows. But

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Soviets did almost everything. So I’ll just say it’s so good. Yeah.

Bryan Krahn

No, just accumulating. I don’t know how you explain it. It’s taking a it’s not taking it, it’s taking it. For a sub Max. How would you explain it if you’re doing?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

So I view it like, so I think of everything as percentage of weight. So weight, right percentage of one around? density or volume? Yeah, to me, like how you describe a cluster set is a way since you fixed the rest period. And your your volume is open ended? Yeah, your density is going to be almost the same. So to speak. Yeah. So your variable is trying to add reps? Yeah. Right. So a lot of stuff I do is almost the inverse of that. Like, I’ll say, Okay, do a dumbbell bench press six, eight rep range for heavy and then do four sets. And then I’ll leave the rest periods open ended. Yeah, I mean, that as you get to between set three and four, you may rest three or four minutes where between set one and two, you’re only resting one minute. So I’m specking the volume but I’m leaving density and time as an open ended variable.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, so often five to two exposures a week. I’ll do the muscle right, like the density type work on your back end the closet. And on the front end, I’ll do stuff like, depending on them. You know, I might do more like the like rest pause work? Sure, you know, or I’ll do we have like, kinda like the patient lifters work where, you know, like, spins a five by five. And we’re there Yeah, where the rest is open. And it’s just chasing that other variable. Yeah, I just like stuff that’s easy, you know, easy for people to visualize and have a goal you know? So

Dr. Mike T Nelson

yeah, make sense? five by five Bill star, right. So ultimately again, yeah, exactly. If I stole it from someone else but

Bryan Krahn

or just or just rest pause work just get like get something completely different. You know, I think it’s you know, sometimes it’s nice to separate things into into training blocks, but I don’t know I kind of like having multiple things in the same program. It just obviously, it’s it can be just a nice little relief mentally, like you have all you have week after week of stuff, especially if it’s stuff like like rest, pause, work that will just run you down as hell but when it stops working, it becomes a grind. So I kind of find if you have seperates don’t do less of it. But then you go back and it was something else. It’s a totally different exposure. You know, you can catch us running longer, which is all was always my goal, I want to run this shit longer, you know?

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, that’s why I use a lot more for strength training and in general I use a lot more complete rest. And then I use a lot of volume progressions and sometimes density, right? So I’ll alternate like a week of volume and then density. And then if it looks like they’re not progressing as well, I’ll do density again. And then volume or someone like my buddy, you probably know Sam Pogue, like he never did much density training. So like most of his work was all just aerobics stuff Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and then a lot of density stuff. And he did great, right? Just just because historically, he’s never really done that and his robotic system just needed some better development. Yeah, right. So it’s like, a lot of it, I think, is just, Hey, What haven’t you done? Maybe we should try that. And if it it’ll get you to the goal that you want to get nuts for probably the faster way to go.

Bryan Krahn

Well, yeah, and at a certain point in aerobic base is less of a, you know, an option in words more requirements, you know? Oh, 100% Like it’s just people got to put in that work. Yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Do you do like a robic testing at all? I know, you work with mostly Gen pop and more like kind of a string training hypertrophy body comp. But do you look at any vo two max or aerobics? Or do you have any markers of something they should be at a certain level before you increase volume?

Bryan Krahn

No, not not for what I do. For my, for my market. Again, I’m a body composition guy, but I just like to get people if they’re not doing any of it, you know, especially if they’re, you know, you want to build up that aerobic base. So I just use really bit like starts off like just, you know, 30 minutes, you know, 120 to 140 You know, just get them successfully doing that. And do I progress it? It, it really just depends, you know, depends on the goal. So, like, with my people I just tried to include as what they need, I was give them what they need. And the especially someone’s stressed out, they don’t have a ton of time, you know, I won’t give them you know, these these, you know, six day a week program, we’ll give them maybe two or three days a week, but quite a bit of aerobic exercise and just increase it you know, maybe like something simple like an extra five minutes a week. Yeah. Other people I’ll just kind of keep it fixed because there’s only so much shit I can fit in. You know, that’s always my underlying things. So but what I don’t do is is or rarely do is just like, here’s your six day a week program and completely ignore other fitness qualities unless those are clearly well established, you know, sir, you know, I got you know, some young people that just want to get big man Okay, and we’re not going to be doing much like we do much cardio, but for the average person, I mean, you know, I’d like to typically probably not even do a ton of strength training at first maybe two or three days you know, and have the balance not doing as much kind of steady state cardio is that life can afford but there’s like chasing do to max like no I don’t really do that.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

And you program Mr. State cardio on a different day than weight training or do you have any qualms about putting them back to back or any preference when they’ll do it when they’ll do it? Yeah, that’s obviously the biggest one

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, I mean, you know, I would study saying I really don’t think it matters that much. You know, yeah, once you start doing like a real beginner rolls and stuff like that then there’s a little bit different than I prefer to do that. Not firstly, not that often and you know, ideally on the same days like day

Dr. Mike T Nelson

you know, interesting you do it after then I assume it depends

Bryan Krahn

how much time I got if they can separate it. That’s great. But yeah, you’ll do four to six hours in between but typically do it after the leg day but I just don’t that’s the here’s another thing I just that’s another thing I still I used to have the hit guy or not not everyone says they’re doing hit you’re not doing

Dr. Mike T Nelson

tomatoes everything devata preacher curls I think dumbbells on a BOSU ball that’s

Bryan Krahn

like well yeah, that’s it that’s mana curls but like to say oh then I do my my hit cardio okay, you’re not really doing it but for 40 minutes Yeah bro dude intervals still hard?

Yeah, yeah. No, I

Bryan Krahn

I used to know I used to program a lot intervals no steady state cardio cuz that makes you fat? No. Now I do. Rarely rarely, because I just think that that digs such a hole. And just it’s not any better for fat loss in my estimation, yes faster. But you know, like it’s a faster workout. I mean, but it’s just much much prefer to steady state cardio usually, usually push the time to a certain point and then, you know, kind of push the push the effort in that window how much, again as much as they can, especially as much as they need. Yeah. So

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I think people underestimate how like, high quality, high intensity interval training I think people underestimate just how freakin brutal that is and how developed you have to be in order to do that repeatedly and maintain the quality of output.

Bryan Krahn

Well, yeah, like, that’s, I would never put that in someone’s program right away. Like if I don’t, okay, take the cardio less, again, depends what they show up like, but Right. Yeah, like they’re first gonna get, they’re gonna get a watch. You know, and that solves a ton of fucking problems because especially if they’re stressed, if I can get them just walking outside. Like, that can be their cardio, I’ll work on the diet that’s in the strength training more often. But if they need more, you know, it’s more of that like then yeah, we’ll do basic steady state cardio. I don’t I don’t always I’ll occasionally put in or you know, robic intervals I don’t like but I just, frankly, I just don’t, I don’t see the need. I just think it just, it causes more problems. You know, that, that’s, that’s something else you can fix. Like, it’s, I don’t see why you I don’t see why you would do that. Be it Yeah, you get better robot adaptations you have better shape. But you know, it’s such a thing you want to play that card sparingly. Like maybe after eight to 12 weeks of a lot of good steady state cardio then you start to start to creep into the other way like maybe one robot interval session maybe up to two and watch it while concurrently lowering steady state and then But then you have to also look at the goal the weight training bike if you’re having a lot of light days, where are you putting these but you gotta be careful where you put them like I like to do them on like days and now if you have to like days a week okay, now like I say everything writes a check and that right that one writes a really big one.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, I’ve gotten I think better at programming it like for some people I may literally start with you know at the end of their leg day or hybrid day, like get on a rower and I’ll spec at you know what wattage I want them to go for 30 seconds and then I’ll do the rest period open. Yeah, no, no again.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, no, I should I should add. I’m talking like running. I’m talking like treadmill Sprint’s well yeah on a rower. Okay, that’s yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Oh, I got it. So you’re just talking about sprinting like running got it?

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. Or or even bike Sprint’s rower that I, I wrote, I’ll put that. I use that a lot. As a finisher, actually. Yeah. Great body finisher. Yeah, that’s what I’ll sneak in a lot earlier. Because I don’t I find it so people like it. It’s fast. It’s effective. It’s easy to track. Doesn’t Yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Do you think that’s because there’s less impact that you can get away with a little more volume? That’s kind of what I found.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah. Yeah. No, I should clarify that when I say intervals. I mean, like, you know, got it. Yeah. Or bike sprints, you know? But yeah, no, it’s the details matter.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah. Yeah. And I even start people at like two or three intervals. And they look at it. And they’re like, what, this is insane. But to read, and I’ll say, okay, you can only deviate, usually five to 10% off your max. Right? So if you rested for minutes, and you can’t repeat within 10% of your max, like you’re done with intervals, like because you can’t get any higher quality work. And now all you’re going to do is just, you know, burn in recovery for probably not a better adaptation. And now I got to take away something else later because you only got X amount of recovery you can use. Well, yeah, and I

Bryan Krahn

just think was steady state work to like, yeah, you just get so much. I mean, I it does more for for someone who comes to me in that, like, I guess I just get more bang out of that buck. Like, yeah, totally. Yeah, like you get the restorative factor, you know. And, anyway, I don’t know.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Cool, man. Well, thank you so much for your time. I just have two last questions. One of them is is John Berardi being a pain in the ass or is he still okay? I just love given John should probably never hear this anyway. So

Bryan Krahn

we’re kids. He’s busy. He’s great band. He’s great.

He’s awesome. Yeah, he’s

Bryan Krahn

just he’s, you know, I It’s so fun because he doesn’t you sure as hell doesn’t need me. So cheers all those a dB. So I enjoy that. Because they’re a great privilege to do his programs. And it’s fun because, again, I know he’s just you could do it himself quite well. And so we can kind of work off each other. And, but again, is is what’s fun about programming and because he is such an accomplished lifter. Oh yeah, great bodybuilder and So now it’s more of like programming round. He’s got four kids and he, you know, he’s living different places and stuff like that different gym environments. So that’s that’s what I find the most fun about it. You know, it’s because it’s like, it’s not like I’m sitting there going, Okay, how do I like, you know how to work with this really good athlete? How do I make him better as I Okay, how do I work with his life and his concepts? You know? Because I know that he’s got the requisite skill set to be able to push it. Yeah. Yeah. So he’s, he’s doing good. He, yeah, he’s, he’s, he works. He works harder than he probably. He runs himself down pretty fast. It’s, it’s funny. It’s interesting. He is tolerance, he goes into the red pretty easy.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Yeah, and I know, he’s not doing the podcast for a while to just because of time investments and everything else, too. So it’s just been interesting to watch. Because I’m on paper, people are like, Ah, he’s so precision nutrition, like, he doesn’t have to work another day in his life. But I think if you, you have the skill set and drive of someone who’s accomplished that with business partners, you’re not just going to retire and sit my ties on the beach all day, you probably just don’t have that personality. And so I think it’s been interesting to watch him, spend more time with his kids, you know, grew up have a family and just all the other things he’s able to do now. So it’s been a cool journey to watch at least from the outside.

Bryan Krahn

Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it’s just yeah, I guess it’s interesting. I can see that drive in his training because Because especially the rest, pause work like that. He’s like, I need to do not, that’s not saying that he’s, you know, he’s weak. It’s just, oh, no, you know, and he said, his 40s. Now, closer to 15. Like, dude, okay, I get it. And sometimes

Dr. Mike T Nelson

I think having someone like you, the more advanced athletes I have, like, a lot of times I spend more time just pulling them back than I do pushing them. You know, it’s like, Hey, man, your HRV has been read two days, like what’s going on? Like, let’s drop your volume. Let’s drop in an aerobic day. Let’s, you know, make sure you don’t blow both the tires at once.

Bryan Krahn

Yeah, yeah, he’s, uh, yeah, he’s good. That way. He knows his his biofeedback pretty well. So yeah. All right. Yeah, that’s

Dr. Mike T Nelson

nice. And then where can people find more about you, if they want to go to your website, and you’ve got a wonderful newsletter, and you’re one of the rare newsletters that I actually still enjoy reading because I run a newsletter and I don’t like reading a lot of other people’s newsletters cuz I don’t think they’re very good. I enjoy reading yours all the time, which is great.

Bryan Krahn

I’m just gonna get it’s gonna get better. Yeah, a frequency is a quote. I’m like, what every other week, but website is Brian cron.com. br y n. K, Ra HN. And, yeah, um, people might probably guess I don’t really have a system. I just kind of try to do what works. So

Dr. Mike T Nelson

yeah. And that’s great, then yeah, I really enjoy your writing. And also, when I wrote articles for Team neg when you added them that it was great, because I would get them back. And I’m just like, you have the thing where you send something in, you’re like, that’s pretty good. And like, either you or Lou would edit them. They come back and you’re like, Fuck, I sent like a shitty thing. And this sounds so much better. But it still sounds like me. How do they do that?

Bryan Krahn

That birds Yeah.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

That’s a hard skill to learn. Oh, impressive. Well, I

Bryan Krahn

mean, it’s when you correct enough really bad writing after a while. You’re just like, I can’t you don’t want to read anything. And you’re just like? Yeah, but yeah, you can find me. Find me there.

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all your time today and sharing all your knowledge. We really appreciate it. Thanks, man. Okay, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Really appreciate it. A huge thanks to Brian for his time. Great to talk to him again. I as I mentioned in the podcast, I haven’t been able to see him in person for a while due to COVID and traveling and him being up in Canada and having a kid and everything else that’s going on now, but hopefully we’ll be able to see him in person again. Big thanks to him for sharing all of his wisdom. I’ve always enjoyed his writing. And just his thought process as someone who’s been coaching people for literally a long period of time and it’s always fun to compare notes and see if you’re seeing similar trends and get good thoughts from him. So be sure to check out his stuff. Highly also recommend his newsletter which is a great read.

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