Episode 242: Secrets to Fitness Success with Personal Trainer Tasha Wolf Whelan

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[00:00:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase your performance in the gym, add muscle, better body composition, all without destroying your health in the process. Today on the program, I’m super excited. We’ve got Tasha Wolf Whalen, and she is talking all about the life of a trainer and all the wonderful tips that she has learned as a trainer of many years.

[00:00:37] You’ve probably seen some of her writing on T Nation. She’s also an educator for pain free training. And she’s also a head strength and conditioning coach and manager. Just really great stuff. Make sure to check out her Instagram, which is ironwolf03. And we’ll put links. To all of her great stuff, and I wanted to pick her brain about everything from, programming to exercise variations to just all the wealth of knowledge that she has accumulated over many years of education herself, and then also being in the trenches and doing the work on a daily basis, both on herself as a competitive lifter and then also coaching all the athletes that she works with.

[00:01:25] Also wanted to let you know that the Flex Diet Certification will open again right now. It’s targeting for around the middle part of January. I don’t have an exact date yet. I’ve got a couple other things coming up that may change that. But January 2024 is when it’s planned to open again. You can get all the information right away via on my newsletter.

[00:01:50] Go to miketnelson.com/podcast. Not only can you see all the podcasts that I’ve been on for guest appearances, scroll down and you’ll be able to hop onto the newsletter. A lot of times I have early bonuses and will announce other things to the newsletter people only. If you want to check that out, go to miketnelson.com/podcast Scroll down and you can hop on to the daily newsletter for free So as soon as I have the exact date for the flex diet cert, I will get that Sent out to you. Also. I have another really cool project that I’m working on that will be announced very soon That’ll be out around the end of January Also, so enjoy this podcast here with Tasha Wolfe.

[00:02:39] [00:02:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: . Anything you’re super passionate about right now,

[00:02:43] Tasha Wolf Whalen: right now, I’m just a passionate person. So yeah, I picked up on everything.

[00:02:48] I’m passionate about coaching. I’m passionate about training myself. I’m passionate about competing and passionate. And the most thing that I’m passionate about though, is. Truly helping other people get to where they want to go and not even necessarily in a physical transformation at all. As a manager, I help my team get to their goals, whatever that is a career wise or personally.

[00:03:08] And that’s what I really been passionate about the most is really helping someone get to their ultimate goal. Whatever that looks like for them. So I enjoy doing that the most.

[00:03:18] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, do you find I should ask you, like, how long have you been training? I assume it’s quite a while. Yeah, that’s a compliment.

[00:03:25] Not a negative.

[00:03:27] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I know. Shoot. Are my white hairs coming out there? No, that’s cool. I’ve been a coach for 20 years, 21 years now. So yeah, I’ve been in it for a while. I’ve only been a pretty darn decent coach, for probably a decade. Half the time I was trying to figure it out, and Oh yeah.

[00:03:45] Certainly a horrible coach for a long time because I just didn’t know anything and didn’t have the experience but after 20 years I’m still learning and still trying to figure things out But I certainly know a lot more and I have a lot more confidence in doing what I do

[00:03:59] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, have you found the longer you do it?

[00:04:03] I don’t want to say like results don’t matter but you almost you understand that it’s a process and that Maybe it’s because you have enough experience actually hitting And initially thinking everything will be different. Like for me, like getting squashed by the bar in high school and even my first year of college with no weight on it, I thought once I bench 225, that’s amazing, right?

[00:04:31] You don’t, or once I deadlift 405, I get to put four plates on a side. Cause my first deadlift was 95 pounds. Ah, I’ve made it then, and you hit these, minor goals, which are big goals for you at the time. And then you realize. Oh, nothing really changed a whole lot.

[00:04:49] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Transformation really isn’t doesn’t come from the end result. It comes from the journey and the process of doing it. I was I used to be hyper focused on getting someone to that end result. And that’s the only thing I could focus on. And I’m like, Oh, my gosh. And it wasn’t getting them there, and I just wasn’t successful with that mindset on it.

[00:05:05] So then I took a different mindset with it. And even my conversations with clients have changed to where I would allow them to focus on that goal, that end result. And it really was just setting everyone up me as a coach and them as a client for letdown and disappointment, because we would have this idea like, yeah, we can get there in eight weeks, 12 weeks, whatever it may be.

[00:05:26] And that just really wasn’t realistic because life happens and you have to be flexible in your approach and change things, because certain things in life just occur out of your control. And yeah, you can’t really focus on a specific date to get things done or Pacific goal. It’s that process of getting there because things change throughout that journey.

[00:05:45] Yeah.

[00:05:46] Dr Mike T Nelson: How do you communicate that to your clients? Because I think it’s it’s an interesting double edged sword in the business because we, No, that clients are literally paying us a lot of money to get them a result. And obviously that’s part of what you’re gonna do. But when you’ve been in it for decades, you realize that’s not the only benefit.

[00:06:10] But you can also remember when you first started. I was like the only benefit I ever thought about.

[00:06:16] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Absolutely. But the whole thing is like a big puzzle piece, and everything has to align and be just right for it to come out the way that you’re expecting it to be. So you have to navigate all these little puzzle pieces to fit it in its entirety.

[00:06:33] In such a way that is really hard to accomplish, like sleep quality, right? Like you’re going to have bad nights of sleep sometimes, and that’s going to affect your training. And then ultimately that goal too might get pushed a little bit further out. So it’s one of those conversations that can be very tricky because everyone just wants the result.

[00:06:52] Like most people do, they don’t really want the process and the journey, right? No one really does want that, but you have to have those conversations that say, things are going to work out when they everything aligns how it’s supposed to align to get you that goal and that’s where it can be really tricky because again, people have this expectation that if they’re working with the trainer, then they should have that result on X date, but they don’t really think about all that fluctuation that happens within that timeframe to begin bad night’s sleep, eating out missing a session, getting injured, all that stuff is going to then change that date or that outcome or the goal or how it’s going to look in their mind.

[00:07:31] So it can be very tricky because that’s the expectations of having a coach is I hired you to get me to this spot. on this date for my wedding or whatever it may be, and I’m not 100 percent there. So it can be very tricky, but it’s life experiences too. Again, I’ve been in the game for a while, so I can be like, yeah, I’ve been there too.

[00:07:50] And I will just share my stories and my experiences and even with other clients and having those conversations regularly. Really does help them. It’s okay, I see what you’re focusing on is that end and result, but think about all these little goals, these little micro goals that you’ve hit along the way.

[00:08:09] So when we break things down to focus on little mini goals throughout it and show the progression and where they’ve been, then that actually helps them change their mind too. Cause people again, look at the scale and be like, I gained weight or I didn’t lose weight this week. How do you feel this week though?

[00:08:25] Do you feel a little bit stronger? Yes, I do. Do you feel like you fit your clothes a little bit better? Yeah, I do. Okay, so then we have to focus on different matrix of that too in different areas so they don’t just hyper focus on that end result because it really is all these different wins. That they aren’t realizing and recognizing throughout that journey.

[00:08:43] So you focus on the little wins and then helps them change their mindset on that.

[00:08:48] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And it’s not a, it’s never a linear process. Like my running joke is that other than maybe heart rate during exercise, I don’t know of anything else during physiology that’s actually linear, but like humans are just programmed to think linear.

[00:09:04] And I’ve looked at hundreds, maybe thousands of just weight loss, just on scale, weight, where you get on the scale every day. And you see the chart and the trends are going down, but it’s always up and down. There’s this little bit of variability. I actually find when that variability goes away, every time they get stuck, like if they get on the scale and it’s exactly, 201.

[00:09:25] 1 pounds, 201. 2, 201. 0, like they’re stuck at that point versus the little bit of up and down. I actually use that as a marker now to see where they’re at.

[00:09:38] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s actually a really good point and something that is very valuable to let them know too. Because again, people get freaked out over that.

[00:09:45] They see the scale not moving or moving up and it’s okay if it goes up even when you’re in a weight loss phase or program, the scale might go up a little bit and that’s okay because then nothing https: otter. ai Linear, like you said, and there’s going to be fluctuations depending on time of day that you’re weighing in, how much water you had, what you had to eat, sodium levels, there’s so much that goes into it.

[00:10:05] So those fluctuations are normal and you want to see that and that’s okay because it might be high that might drop a little bit lower because of that fluctuation. Yeah, different things to focus on.

[00:10:15] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I’ve even when people are stuck, sometimes I’ve actually added. More calories on purpose and their weight will go up a little bit and then it’ll drop like two pounds exactly Which really freaks clients out and they’re like why you want me to eat more calories?

[00:10:30] I’m trying to lose weight and you’re telling me to take one day and eat more calories I’m like, let’s say and go face first into four birthday cakes But have some more right rice have a sweet potato at dinner like, just do something that’s higher and then yeah Your weight might go up a little bit, you know as much as we try to explain the physiology of it And then, a day or two later, boom, it like goes back down again.

[00:10:50] I’m like, Oh, that’s so crazy.

[00:10:52] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I legitimately had this conversation and this whole situation just the other day with someone. I was like, Hey, I’m going to have you eat some more. I told them that they’re like, Whoa, but I’m trying to, why would you tell me to eat more? And it was the same thing. I was like, have a sweet potato, something like that.

[00:11:06] And I’m like, have a little bit more rice or whatever, add rice in something. And they were just so freaked out about it. I’m like, If you just trust me and just do just a little bit, not a lot of bit, not like cups of this and just go until you can’t eat anymore, but a little bit more because you need to feel your body.

[00:11:22] Your body’s clearly in need of more nutrients, more food, fuel, whatever it may be. And then they dropped weight two days later and they are now trending downward again. And so you show someone that if they do it right, then they’re going to see a positive effect from that. Yeah.

[00:11:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. The other analogy I use since I live in Minnesota is if you’ve ever tried to push a car out of the ditch, like you can’t just push on it, right?

[00:11:48] You have to rock the car forward and back and forward and back. So I tried to explain them that you’re clearly stuck, like your weight’s not going up, it’s not going down. So we want to try to generate some momentum and it’s easier to generate momentum by going up a little bit to go back down.

[00:12:04] And they’re like, I don’t know, whatever. And then when it actually works, they’re like oh, that does work.

[00:12:09] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I actually really that analogy. Yeah. I tell people it’s like an oscillation. You move a little bit forward, a little bit back. They move a little bit more forward, a little bit back. And it just, again, teeter totter, but each time you’re getting further along.

[00:12:22] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Do you find that with. And your own training, like the longer I’ve been doing it, I find that some of my biggest PRs were a couple days or sometimes a week after a really crappy performance, not horrible, but not anywhere close to even what it was that four week average, like I was just looking at some stuff on my actual deadlift the other day, and the last time I had a PR on it, my weight, my working weight, literally four days before that PR was like.

[00:12:53] 30 pounds off what my PR was. Okay, yeah. And initially on that day, I remember having a note scribble down going, this sucks I’m so far off even my normal working weight. And then four days later, I hit like an all time PR.

[00:13:09] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, I actually just, that happened to me this week with a overhead press.

[00:13:12] I was like stalled out on some lifts. I’m like struggling. I’m like, oh my gosh, I think I need a deload or something. My body’s just like running down or something. And then I like hit all these PRs like a few days later. I’m like, all right there we

[00:13:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: go. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very easy. Any thoughts on why that happens or anything?

[00:13:31] Because it’s also very It’s frustrating for me, and I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I know it’s even more frustrating for clients who are new. Granted, I don’t see that degree of variability when they’re new, but you still see it. And how do you get people through, through that?

[00:13:47] Because if they’re doing everything else you can see their general trends, and it’s usually just one particular lift. It’s not like They were out at the bar every night, doing benders and sleeping four hours a night, then you know, like what’s going on. It’s usually one or two lifts where like everything else is moving in the right direction.

[00:14:03] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I usually will switch out the movement when we start seeing that and I’ll get them exposed to something a little bit newer or some kind of different stimulus something that’s a little bit more exciting or something that we may Not have really tested on. So let’s just, for example, let’s say that we’re focusing on a max effort and they are not, they’re like, Oh my gosh, I was stronger last week.

[00:14:23] I’m stronger two weeks ago. And they were just struggling to hit the same way. And even though on our program, it’s we’re supposed to exceed that, right? So I might actually switch it up. I’m like, okay, you know what? We’re going to actually do a little bit more dynamic movement, more power based stuff.

[00:14:34] So we’re going to go a little bit faster, a little bit more explosive. So new stimulus, something that they can’t, they themselves can’t mentally measure themselves. So they’re like I’ve never done this. So I don’t know, I have nothing to compare. It’s still beneficial. We’re just doing speed work, the same movement.

[00:14:49] We’re just. Changing how we approach it, right? The intensity that we’re using, and so that mentally will help them is what at least I have found to help quite a bit. And then as we revisit that, I’ll probably do a couple weeks or a few weeks or a block on something that looks a little bit different, again, a little bit more speed work, dynamic effort.

[00:15:08] And then we resume back to either the repetition effort or max effort, and then they will see progress again, and they’re like, oh, I, so just switching up the stimulus sometimes, it’s, Done wonders for me and my clients for sure.

[00:15:21] Dr Mike T Nelson: Very cool. Yeah. Do you program a lot with kind of a conjugated like template then I’m assuming it looks like from some of your stuff I’ve seen again that could be just me doing an oversimplification of your stuff.

[00:15:34] So

[00:15:34] Tasha Wolf Whalen: definitely I am a pretty versed in programming I’ve spent I think the majority of my career at least the last decade really diving into programming. Styles and stuff like, triphasic conjugate linear block periodization. Like I’ve looked at it all and I really love programming, right?

[00:15:49] It’s like this fun little puzzle, especially when you can get really custom to people and you can, clean up their movements their pain too, and then get them to progress and get them to their goals. I think it’s awesome. For myself I definitely. Conjugate, I think it, it’s really fun.

[00:16:04] There’s a lot of variety that goes in. It just feels good to do. It’s something I’ve really enjoyed. Generally for my clients, most of them, cause it’s GenPOP. I know I’m a competitive strength athlete and people think that all I do is program for power lifters and strong man athletes. And my clients, 90 percent are GenPOP, right?

[00:16:23] So yes, I have some of those people that I do program for a competition, but generally speaking, I don’t. So for my clients it’s going to look a little bit different. I do depending on them. So you think that. Most of the people that come to us are probably training with us twice a week on average, typically.

[00:16:43] And some of them will do things on their own, but not all of them. Yeah. It’s not like most of them don’t really like it. That’s why they come to us because that’s why they pay.

[00:16:51] While I personally like to do like a four or five day a week split on strength and I throw in a couple days of conditioning for myself with clients, it’s full body, right? And it’s more like linear periodization. I’m trying to like slowly just progress them. the same movements for longer periods of time because of skill acquisition.

[00:17:13] And depending on their training age needs analysis, I can go through all of that stuff, but really depending on that person, it’s really going to be the slow going kind of skill acquisition, linear periodization that I typically focus on with the majority of my clients. And again, some that do train consistently in art, in the gym with Four days a week, I will do an upper lower split, so it will be, yeah, a little bit more max effort based on upper and lower and then dynamic effort on upper lower as well so they get a little bit more speed work in there and then some heavier loads.

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:45] Dr Mike T Nelson: Do you find a pretty good transfer with dynamic effort, I’ve. I don’t know, I’ve played around with it, and for myself, for whatever reason, and again, I could be doing it completely wrong, for all I know, too, and I haven’t done it lately. I don’t know why it was a weird thing, where it felt great ah, this is great, but didn’t really, at least for me, the I probably did for around six months, like I didn’t notice any better progression with it.

[00:18:11] So again, but I know other people who have seen huge progress with it. So I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’m just curious what you’ve seen.

[00:18:19] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Sometimes even with my programming, I will have to make a little bit of a change. So although I like those splits and conjugate style, I will take a break from that and do linear periodization for six months and then go back to conjugate sometimes and do something like that.

[00:18:32] And that’s. Again, it will change, but when it comes to strength, so this is where I with some of my clients and myself too, those that are always under the assumption that more is better, or we got to push grind, always balls to the wall, heavy all the time.

[00:18:51] You’re going to hit a wall at some point. You’re going to break all that wear and tear and that mileage that you’re putting on the body. Every session is just grinding out and going as. as you can with the dynamic effort, specifically when you’re talking about strength. And again, I’m a big strength coach.

[00:19:07] It’s not just about moving heavyweights, but it’s about moving weights very fast. So as a competitive strength athlete, if I were to always be lifting heavy in all my sessions, I’m grinding out. I will eventually get to a point where I can’t move through a certain movement, like a deadlift. I might have my sticking points at a weight that I shouldn’t.

[00:19:30] be seeing those sticking points at. But if I add in dynamic effort and move very fast and very explosively, that’s going to help transfer over into my max effort lifts to where I can actually move those loads faster and lock them out and finish the lift. Whereas if I don’t do the speed work, then I’ve run into a lot more grind year of movements, and then my body just.

[00:19:51] is crankier that way. So for that, for strength alone. Yeah. Moving fast, moving the loads fast, definitely transfers over to getting stronger. And I also like it for some like GPP components too, because in dynamic effort, for example let’s say I’m doing my squats. I’m doing 12 sets of three reps at.

[00:20:14] 40%. Maybe I have some chains on there as well. So that’s fairly lightweight. There’s accommodated resistance on it, but I’m going to hit these a lot of volume on there, 10 or 12 sets of three reps, but only 20 to 30 second rest in between. So it’s, you rack it, you get done you’re sweating the whole time.

[00:20:31] So you get some cardiovascular effects in there too, GPP effects, and you’re moving really fast. Plus you get done with your workout a lot quicker than max effort days. So it’s nice.

[00:20:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I always felt. At least on the deadlift. I always felt really good after it. And the weird thing I noticed was My max didn’t go up much.

[00:20:52] My speed sub max was much faster. And I thought I remember doing the testing day thinking, Oh, I just smoked that way. And that is usually a grinder. Like I’m good for they start getting in your head, like all these fictitious numbers. And my max was like right around the same. So whatever reason when I hit my max, it was just like But again, who knows?

[00:21:13] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, I found benefits in that too on more repetition effort or sub max days. Sub max

[00:21:17] Dr Mike T Nelson: stuff was way better Yeah,

[00:21:19] Tasha Wolf Whalen: no big time. True max effort. They’re gonna be grinders. Anyway, you’re really hitting a true max It’s not going to look good. It’s probably not going to feel the best, but you can set your body up a little bit better by providing it with some of these, other elements like speed work in there and power work.

[00:21:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: You find most people trying to do a true dynamic effort, go too heavy. 100%. Yes, what I’ve noticed. And again, I don’t use it a time, but that’s just what I’ve observed. And I know I made that mistake early on because I was like, Oh, and then I remember reading some from Louie or somebody else and looking at again, some of their top lifters and what they were actually doing for dynamic effort.

[00:21:56] And I’m like, Oh, I

[00:22:00] Tasha Wolf Whalen: mean, if we talk about power too, and that’s like the whole point of dynamic effort is working on power, you’re looking at 30 to 80 percent right where you should be working down in the 30, 40 percent speed, especially if you’re using the accommodated resistance, but what people will do is what I see is like 70, 80 percent also with accommodated resistance, so that’s just, yeah.

[00:22:26] So when I go up in my dynamic effort, if I’m upward to 60, 70%, I dropped the accommodative resistance. I Don’t need that extra load because I’m still trying to move fast. At heavier loads now, but not too heavy to where it’s actually a sub max work or max effort, which often I will see that with people’s dynamic effort is that they go way too heavy and they’re grinding it out and it’s not moving very well.

[00:22:50] And I’ve even seen people fail at dynamic efforts. That is not, if you’re failing a lift at doing. True dynamic work. Yeah, that’s not how you do it. Yeah, there’s right ways and wrong ways to do it. But if you do it right, I, yeah, I think there’s a lot of benefits and Transference

[00:23:07] Dr Mike T Nelson: for it for sure.

[00:23:08] You used a lot of accommodating resistance and the sub question is, have you ever played with like flywheels or other methods to get I guess it’s just a different curve, but to me it feels almost more like accommodating resistance. So I tend to lump them together, even though I’m sure purists will hate me for

[00:23:25] Tasha Wolf Whalen: that.

[00:23:26] I haven’t myself used much on a flywheel but I do use a lot of a band and chain for work. I do bands a little bit more a, just for the gym environment, people are very sensitive to sounds. So you’re playing in and banging on those chains that people just mean muggy and glare at you.

[00:23:46] You’re like, I’m in a gym training, but also with drag weight of chains, you step back, if it’s squat or whatever it may be in the gym, chains can throw you off and torque your body in positions that might. Not feel too good and whatnot. Although there’s a lot of benefit to chains.

[00:24:02] And again, but bands are nice because you can explode through it a little bit more and adjust the weight, single banded, double banded. So can make it a little bit more or a little bit less, but I also feel like you’re a little bit more stable. with the band, depending on how you set it up, rather than the chains again, dragging one out too far and one’s behind and stuff like that.

[00:24:26] But I do enjoy using that accommodated resistance for sure. Now, have you used much of the flying wheel

[00:24:31] Dr Mike T Nelson: yourself? Yeah, I picked one up coming up on two years ago, and I looked at it for quite a while. And the main reason I got it is Not that I’m getting that old. As time of this recording, I’ll be 49 in a couple of days, but I also realized that I don’t do a lot of speed work and I know that speed’s going to drop off far as going to drop off as I get.

[00:24:57] And then also I do a lot of kiteboarding. So if you crash, it’s not going to be usually a slow crash. That’s going to be somewhat of a violent opposition of some body part going somewhere else. So I’m like, ah, I should probably do more speed work. But then I’m like, wow, what would I do? I can do that. Some little plyometrics or whatever.

[00:25:17] And what I liked about the flywheel is that it’s. It’s very hard to go slow because if people have never used it, you’ve got this flywheel that spins. So when you do the concentric, the wheel’s spinning up and then the eccentric, the wheel reverses. And it’s literally if you’re just doing a simple bicep curl, right?

[00:25:34] So on the way up, you’re trying to move it as fast as you can, but the wheel is turning. So you have this like inertia you’re moving against, and then when you get to the top, it’s literally ripping you like back down. So it’s this odd thing where you can move as fast as you can, almost like if you have really heavy chains or bands, and it just doesn’t move that fast.

[00:25:53] But then you’ve got that eccentric component to it also. So I found I actually, I really liked it. I use it mostly for accessory stuff and before snowboard season too, like just doing split stance stuff on a K box is just absolutely murderous or Zurcher squats on it for your legs and just doing even bicep curls or anything on it.

[00:26:15] There’s something that my heart rate will always spike super high and I don’t know if it’s a constriction somewhere else or I’m just physically doing more work or what, but but yeah, overall, I actually, I really do like it. Nice, yeah, I’ll

[00:26:28] Tasha Wolf Whalen: have to find one and play around with

[00:26:30] Dr Mike T Nelson: it a little bit more.

[00:26:31] Yeah, and I think there’s, I think there’s even sites where you might be able to try to make one at home. They’re not super complicated really, but Yeah. Yeah. For recommending resistance, like how any recommendations for, to know how much to use? I’ve seen stuff from, like you were saying, single bands, double bands.

[00:26:50] I’ve seen sometimes more weight in chain than bar weight, and it just seems like everyone is all across the board on it.

[00:26:57] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, I usually stick around about 10 percent is usually the number that I go with. I always suggest to people to always start with the bar and the accommodated resistance.

[00:27:09] Put that on first. I’ll see a lot of mistakes where people will load up weights and then do some sets or just load up and then put bands on or chains on or whatever it may be. And that can be quite a surprise and shock to the system, especially if you’re new to it, and you aren’t familiar with how that weight feels or how aggressively it’s going to try

[00:27:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: to play.

[00:27:28] Oh yeah. Yeah. So

[00:27:30] Tasha Wolf Whalen: especially bands and I’ve seen people get injured, tear rotator cusps, pop their pads, do weird stuff on benches or something because they think that to, even just with the bar and a band. They’re like, Oh, it’s just the bar. No, you’re not on there. That’s and they unwrap or something like that.

[00:27:48] It’s so you got to be very mindful. If you’re new to it, I would always start with a single band. If you’re doing bands rather than a double band. And there’s different resistance on it. So I will also see people do the really thick, like monster bands, like the thick purple or green, black.

[00:28:04] But you want the minis, the micro minis and the mini bands are going to be ideal for accommodative resistance. So the little orange ones Elite FTS has great bands that you can get. And then the red ones too. So I always tell people start off single and start off with the micro mini. So the orange get used to that.

[00:28:19] And that’ll Typically feel very light and resistance for people. So it’s okay, now maybe we can try to double the orange band up. And then once you get through a full series of dynamic effort or max effort, whatever it may be, then maybe progress to the red band, but always start off with putting the accommodative resistance on first, rather than straight way on.

[00:28:39] And then adding the accommodative resistance, cause it’s a little bit safer or a lot safer, and then you can adjust that weight, but yeah, about 10 percent typically seems about pretty solid go to for it. Yeah.

[00:28:50] Dr Mike T Nelson: And I would assume if you’re using chains, like on a squat, you would set up the chains with a smaller chain.

[00:28:55] So at the bottom, most of the chain is sitting on the floor then to try to unload it as much as possible.

[00:29:01] Tasha Wolf Whalen: A hundred percent. Yes. So again, yeah, people will float the weights like chains. You don’t want them to float. You need to have them be able to offload completely on the ground at that bottom range of the squat bench that lift, whatever it may be.

[00:29:13] But yeah, so there’s some kind of anchor down there because then if it’s floating, it’s just more like chaos work. And It’s going to have a different stimulus, different effect, but also could be a lot riskier too, if they’re floating and swinging in space like a pendulum. So always have a few links down, even at the top range of whatever it may be, standing in a squat, locked out in a bench, press that there are a few links still down on the ground to anchor it and to stabilize it a little bit more.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] Dr Mike T Nelson: And then any tips for setting it up on a deadlift? I’ve seen people set it up on the ends, which I always find horrible because it always goes under the weight of the disaster and just sticking it on the middle and cram my feet under it seems to work way better.

[00:29:56] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, the deadlift can be very Special when it comes to accommodate versus they’re using chains because I run into that a lot too.

[00:30:03] Yeah, you’re rolling over the chains with bumper plates and it throws you off and it twists you and then you can get injured. And that’s the last thing we want is injury. So you could set up they have actual those little Oh my gosh, little rod things that you can stick onto a bar where you can hook the chain on the end of it.

[00:30:20] Oh yeah. Specific things for it. So you could do it that way. If you are a sumo deadlifter, piling the chains in the middle would work, so it’s gonna not hit the feet. You won’t step on it and the bar’s not going to roll on it. Now that could be a little special. depending on your gender too.

[00:30:38] So if you’re going up really aggressively and you’re a man, so just be mindful of all that. So yeah, you could also drape it. What I typically do, cause I’m a conventional lifter. So narrow stance, I will put it right outside of my shins. So my feet are planted. I know it’s not going to roll over the bar.

[00:30:58] It’s not on the end. So I just put it as close to my body as I can to avoid some of that or actually use the equipment to attach it to.

[00:31:06] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. And for guys, if you’re putting chains in the middle, I lead FTS makes these, I don’t, I forgot the name of it, but it’s a piece of nylon with two rings on the end and you put it over the bar and then you put the chain on underneath that.

[00:31:19] The first time I saw that, I was like, Oh, that’s genius.

[00:31:24] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Something simple, but very effective. Yeah.

[00:31:27] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. That works good. Do you do any accommodating resistance with kind of non competitive clients?

[00:31:36] Tasha Wolf Whalen: For sure. Yeah. If they build the skill acquisition and their movement patterns then and we need some kind of progression or they’re just bored and have that personality of like I need variety I like cool stuff I want to do you know all the stuff then yeah I will absolutely do it with clients so I typically don’t load as much weight on it or accommodated resistance for them.

[00:31:58] Again, depending on their training age, if I’ve been working with someone for a decade, which I have people that I’ve worked with, 12 plus years, they’ve been with me for all this time. And I know their skill level. I know where they’re at strength wise. And I’m not afraid that they’re going to be sloppy or unfocused under it, because that’s really what it comes down to.

[00:32:16] A lot of people are in, they come in because they want to socialize and chat, blah, blah, blah. And you get underneath the bar talking to me.

[00:32:23] Dr Mike T Nelson: I’ve seen that.

[00:32:26] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I see it all the time and I’ll have to tell, I’m like, Hey, I need you to stop talking. If you’re going to do this or rack the bar and we can converse, you’re going to not talk so we can do this.

[00:32:34] That’s one of the biggest mistakes I see people talking under load, like you’re just asking for injury that way. So yeah, if I trust in their abilities. Then, yes, I will absolutely use accommodative resistance with certain clients for sure. Now, not everyone needs it. Is it valuable for everyone?

[00:32:50] No, it could be riskier for some people. Depending on risk versus reward, if it’s risky or I have it, even a slightest little fear that it might be too risky, I’m not going to do it because it’s absolutely not worth it. But again, if they’re interested in it and they just need something a little bit different, a little bit new stimulus, or they’re just like the variety of it, then yeah, we’ll go for it. Absolutely.

[00:33:11] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I find for a variety. It’s it works really well. And sometimes for taller lifters, just that they’ve got such and maybe it’s just me because I’ve got ungodly long femurs like squatting and even dead lifting. Sometimes it’s weird and just that different stimulus of feeling like it.

[00:33:27] You can use a heavier load and sometimes, especially on squats, it just feels like it matches better. It’s almost like I don’t do a ton of machine training per se, but when you find like a nice machine that just seems to match and it feels good, a lot of times I find when you get it set up it just feels a little bit better, more difficult, but not bad, but in a, it feels like it’s doing what it’s supposed to be doing more,

[00:33:50] Tasha Wolf Whalen: what I like about it too, with clients is. You have the people that just always want to lift heavy, right? Oh, I just want to, Oh, I just spent a bad day. I’m stressed out. I just want to lift some weights. It’s a safer way to do it in some regard where you don’t have to do true straight weight, where it might really just fricking bury them.

[00:34:06] And they can feel that load for, a lot of that lift, but it offloads them. So where it’s not really going to put. As much stress and demand on their body as if it was just straight weight the whole way through so it allows for a little bit more recovery for some people to and allows them to really get after it in a way that’s not as stressful on the body.

[00:34:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I also have this little pet theory that for clients who tend to maybe sometimes not want to pay attention. Especially on the squat where they’re unracking it and they have all that load at the top, like it’s a thing of okay, now you better pay attention where if it’s straight weight and especially it’s sub max and you’re at the strongest biomechanical position, it feels lighter.

[00:34:51] And I just think they don’t. Respect the weight enough, but if they unrack it and obviously their experience, they’ve done this before and they feel the weight of the chain as they’re stepping back. It’s more of a thing of Oh, time to pay attention now. Exactly.

[00:35:06] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yes, it’ll rock them a little bit to where they’re like, Ooh, I gotta get tight.

[00:35:09] Yeah, because I’m feeling that so it almost forces that too, which is nice because tension. Creating tension in the body is also a skill that a lot of people struggle with that skill. And it does take practice. It takes time to actually understand it and feel it. But like you get that kind of load and they’re like, Oh, When they get low, people will typically tense up.

[00:35:29] So it teaches in some regard to create tension and to stabilize and to really focus because that’s where a lot of people go wrong is they don’t focus enough on what they’re doing and they’re going to get injured.

[00:35:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. And I find almost all guys just like change. It just looks cool.

[00:35:44] Tasha Wolf Whalen: It sounds cool. You look like a bad ass and so yeah, for some people that just like the sound and get after it, whatever I might have, 65 pounds on the bar on a deadlift for someone. I’m like, let’s throw chains on there. Cause they just want to feel that. And it just makes them feel really tough.

[00:36:02] And yeah, let’s do it. Some people just need that. They come in there just to let loose and, release that tension. And we’re going to get after it and do that.

[00:36:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: Have you found chains tend to work pretty good for a deadlift? I’ve generally had, sort of mixed results, but I guess that really depends on where they’re missing their deadlift, too, obviously.

[00:36:22] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, I feel like there’s a lot of carryover with that. My favorite way to use chains, honestly, on deadlift, What I have found to be pretty good carry over is chain releasing deadlifts. So what I will do with some clients and especially with my training partner we will put on chains and we’ll hook on leader chains to it.

[00:36:43] So rep one. Be a heavier rep and then we’ll rip it off and explode through rep two. Oh nice. Where they’re actually getting really heavy load like, oh crap, that was a lot of weight, but I did it. You take it back down, set yourself again, get tight. Your training partner rips off those chains, and then you just blast that second rep.

[00:37:02] So trains, both that speed and then also strength. Same time. So I really, I like that chains. Yeah. Yeah, totally try that. Like it really does feel good ’cause you get one heavy rep in and then you take that same weight and you’re just blasting through it. So I found a lot of carryover with that method for sure.

[00:37:19] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I did that for a while, on my own. I would warm up and then I go up to my max weight, and then I would add chains and then even if I was doing straight weight for the rest of it. It’s almost like a PAP where you get a little bit heavier load at the top. And then but I liked the idea of that instant on the same rep of changing that.

[00:37:38] That’s cool.

[00:37:39] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed that.

[00:37:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. What are some of your other favorite methods? I know you mentioned triphasic, which obviously I’m biased too, cause I’m good friends with Cal, but I’m just curious what else you’ve found that’s

[00:37:52] Tasha Wolf Whalen: been useful. In terms of methods that I throw into like programming.

[00:37:55] I do a lot of. And depending on again the goal, so things are going to be a little bit different if I’m focusing on a hypertrophy phase or block or program for someone, I might do methods like the rest pause method, or double rest pause to get a little bit of volume because again the goal of hypertrophy is a little bit more volume in there, get size.

[00:38:17] So rest pauses, but for example a push up rest pause which I will do myself I program for clients, where you’re basically going to do. As many reps as possible as you can on whatever exercise, like pushups, do as many as you can. Then you’re going to take a short rest about 20 seconds and then do another set of as many as you can.

[00:38:37] Another 20 second rest and then your third and final set of as many as you can. So you’re really working a failure, like really true failure and fatigue doing that, but it’s a nice way to get. That pump feeling in and get the volume in and to really create that environment for a hypertrophic stimulus and effect.

[00:38:55] So rest pause is a really fun method to do. I will do that even on arms, biceps, triceps, whatever it may be. So nice way to get volume in a very short amount of time.

[00:39:05] Dr Mike T Nelson: Would you do multiple sets for that or would you do that as just like a final set or how would you fit it in

[00:39:10] Tasha Wolf Whalen: so you could do either so like I might use it as a finisher one rest pause or double rest pause where they’re doing that with push ups and something like that.

[00:39:18] But I’ve also done it on let’s say bench press where I might do. Three rest pauses. Let me just throw out a number. We’ll say 155 pounds on the bench. I do as many reps as I can. Racket, 20 second rest. Same thing. As many as I can. Racket, 20 second rest. A third set at that. And then I’ll take a two minute rest and I will drop it to 135 and I’ll do the same thing.

[00:39:39] So yeah, if I’m really trying to build at some size and get a lot of good volume in and get a pump feeling in there, then yes. Absolutely. I will throw that in for a couple of sets like that. We’ll do it as a drop set. So drop sets again, another method that I’ll throw drop set. So you can throw in multiple methods and run program and get really creative.

[00:39:59] It’s fun because there’s science behind coaching, but there’s also art behind coaching too. So you can get really creative. There’s not. One way to do any program. There’s some things that you should consider and some things that are not ideal or optimal, but you can get really creative with programming.

[00:40:14] So it’s fun to throw in a different methods and try them out. Really considering where you put those in your program is important cause I probably wouldn’t start with that. I want to start with just Hey, let’s fry you out, like rest, pause, push ups, and then we’re going to go do a max effort bench, right?

[00:40:30] That just. Doesn’t really match unless the goal was to create that pre fatigue before you go into your max effort to avoid a true max effort, right? So you can do something like that, but I also like to use cluster sets as a method for strength. So where you’re working at maybe, let’s say 90%, which how many reps do you think you can get at 90 percent right now of your deadlift?

[00:40:57] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, I haven’t tested that in a while, but I’d say it’s probably pretty low. I would be betting a couple of reps, maybe three ish four ish somewhere around there. Probably be my guess. I know on my actual lift, I could tell you what that is. That would be so two to five. So I’m hitting nine. So I hit about three to four reps arrive.

[00:41:18] I’m about 90%, but sometimes there’s a double or a single, it just depends on the day, but

[00:41:22] Tasha Wolf Whalen: So 90 percent typically people are at probably anywhere two, two to four reps. Yeah. But now if you do a cluster set of that where it’s like that rest pause, but you’re not doing volume work or, more endurance base.

[00:41:33] So cluster sets are great for strength building. You’re working at 90 percent of your deadlift and maybe you’re doing three cluster sets of two. So I might hit a double at 90 percent and take 30 to 45 seconds. Just shake it off, reset myself, hit another double again, 30, 45 seconds, maybe upward to a minute, depending on how that load felt and then another double.

[00:41:56] So you’re then getting six reps at 90 percent rather than the two or three or four reps. So you’re actually getting a little bit more work and more intensity, more volume in overall, rather than doing a straight. Six reps that you might likely would not be able to achieve. So you can achieve more with cluster sets.

[00:42:13] So I really enjoy using cluster sets, especially as I’m peeking for a competition, I would definitely use cluster sets in there. Yeah. So lots of, it’s out there that you can do to really enhance programming or enhance physique or strength gains or whatever your goal may be. Yeah.

[00:42:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: One of the ones I’ve used with, let’s say.

[00:42:31] Intermediate to advanced clients is a similar cluster set where I’ll have them go pretty heavy, but I want the weight should still move relatively fast. So it’s not really dynamic effort. It’s definitely heavy. And I’ll tell them, okay, just do a single, stand up, let go of the bar, set up again, go again, do another single, let go of the bar, stand up, shake it out, go again, do a third single.

[00:42:53] Cause I know that they’ll probably get three reps there. And instead of Two reps, especially if I know their setup is weak and they’re weaker off of the floor. Now I have more kind of specific practice that I snuck in without them really knowing what I was doing.

[00:43:10] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Exactly. And actually using that, where as you might see someone that does like a touch and go or repetition and going, and then it gets sloppy.

[00:43:18] And then just like they get fatigued or whatever, and it just doesn’t look as good, but resetting and letting them do that first rep every time. To generate that kind of power and create that kind of tension too. It is actually pretty optimal to do that. To have people just reset, hit a rep, reset it, get tight again and hit another clean rep rather than breaking down over multiple reps.

[00:43:38] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, especially if I’m looking at their testing and they’re, they do a true max and then they’re at 90 percent and they hit six to eight reps. I was like, okay, send me a video. I can almost guarantee, Oh, you’re a crossfitter. Okay. I can guarantee exactly what I’m going to see. And the first rep looks hard.

[00:43:57] You’re going, Oh my God, are they even going to get this? And then it’s this weird. Bouncy deadlift catch thing that makes me want to throw a battery acid in my eyes.

[00:44:07] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Just Ooh, it just makes you cringe a little bit. Yeah.

[00:44:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I get it. If you’re doing CrossFit, okay. You can argue that is probably sports specific for some of that, but then it’s like, Hey, lots of cluster sets in your feet.

[00:44:18] And I always get mad because they’re like, but my weight is so much lower. I should be lifting more than this. I did an eight rep max with whatever. I’m like, but you miss the part where you’re weakest. So now. You can’t hide from it when you’re starting from the ground each time too, yeah,

[00:44:35] Tasha Wolf Whalen: that’s a

[00:44:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: good point.

[00:44:36] Yeah, I also I don’t know if you’ve done this too. I don’t know if it was a Poliquin or who I stole it from, but these are called like mechanical drop sets where you do an exercise in like the easier version of it. And then you don’t really do a whole lot of rest, but you just change to hand position or leg position or whatever.

[00:44:53] to another version that’s actually easier. So you start with the hard version and then you do the easier version next because you have more fatigue and that feels a lot harder to that’s been fun to do a fair amount of those too. I

[00:45:07] Tasha Wolf Whalen: love that action method. I use that a lot on lateral shoulder raises, like I’ll sit and do a dead stop on a bench.

[00:45:12] And then immediately stand up and do strict. And then the third layer would be a little bit of body English. Oh, nice. I like that. A lot of medial delta in there. So yeah, I love mechanical drop sets. I’ll do it same with hex bar, trap bar deadlifts. Same thing. I might go low handle on it at a deficit, get rid of the plate there or whatever I’m standing on, hit it again, and then flip the handles over and do high handles, something like that.

[00:45:38] So you get more volume in. Deadlift variation. So yeah, mechanical drop sets are beautiful.

[00:45:44] Dr Mike T Nelson: Love them. I like that. Any other good ones? Those are great.

[00:45:47] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Oh yeah. I probably, you could do that with pushups too. I love doing it with pushups with people too. We might be at a incline. I’ll usually stick to benches side by side.

[00:45:57] So there’s a place for their chest to go. So we’re doing a deficit incline. Push up, lower the bench, and then get them eventually down to the ground, something like that. So yeah, you can do that with a lot of, movements, but yeah, bicep curls, same thing, right?

[00:46:11] He doesn’t love a solid bicep pump from different angles, spider curls and do a standing hammer curl. Maybe you’re doing Zaltman curls with it and just doing different angles at that. Yeah.

[00:46:22] Dr Mike T Nelson: The other one with the push ups I’ve done is using the bar on the Smith machine because it’s so fast to change it.

[00:46:28] So you can start on the floor and then you can just bring the bar up to two or three different levels because all you gotta do is just grab it and then you do push ups to the bar,

[00:46:34] Tasha Wolf Whalen: see, and that’s exactly what that is, that machine

[00:46:36] Dr Mike T Nelson: is beautiful for. Yeah, it works good for something.

[00:46:41] I love it, yes. Do you know the history of the Smith machine? This is something I’ve had on my list forever to research and I just haven’t done it yet. Who thought of this thing? I don’t really Smith. That’s what I want to know.

[00:46:53] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. That’s actually a really good question. Now we’re going to have to do some research

[00:46:56] Dr Mike T Nelson: and find out.

[00:46:57] Cause I know now it’s bugging me again. I’ll probably have to definitely look it up this time.

[00:47:01] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. Someone actually asked me recently to do a tutorial video on how to use the Smith machine. So now I’m gonna have to do some research too. I know how to use it, but do I use it that much?

[00:47:11] No, for pushups I do. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:13] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. If someone wants. To learn better programming, what would your advice be? They want to learn

[00:47:23] Tasha Wolf Whalen: how to program better. Yeah. Definitely, getting some resources I think would be awesome. What I did that helped me the most besides, yes, I have hundreds of books around me right now on programming, science and principles of strength, training, I have tons of books.

[00:47:39] So either I like knowledge, I will buy any fricking book. And again, I surround myself with knowledge as much as I can. But besides from books, again, I can give a list of books. I would hire a coach, honestly, like even as a coach, I’ve hired multiple coaches just to learn programming. Cause I knew that their style was different than mine.

[00:47:59] So when I was getting into conjugate, I hired a Matt winning, for example. That’s awesome. Great friends. hired him and so and also having him as a mentor learn that way. So hiring coaches is seriously the best way to learn because you can ask questions, especially as a coach, when you have an understanding of things like, cool, I would like to know your why behind this exercise and why you put it here and any coaches program for you there.

[00:48:25] They’re not going to get mad at you asking that you’re being inquisitive. Learn right. And they should be willing to educate you and teach you along the way. So higher coaches, I’ve hired multiple coaches just to learn different styles of programming, linear periodization, block periodization. I just hired multiple coaches until I’m like, sweet.

[00:48:41] I have a really solid understanding of how they program and of this kind of method or training style. So it’s a nice way to do it. Can it get pricey a little bit? Sure. But it’s worth it because you’re investing in yourself and your knowledge and your education and you’re becoming a better coach because of it.

[00:48:57] And I’m humble enough to be like, I don’t know it all. I’ve been in 20 plus years and I feel like I know this much. And so there’s so much out there. Learn as much as you can from people and build that network and build the, mentors and stuff. Yeah, that’s basically how I learned the most is by hiring other people and then being able to talk to them.

[00:49:17] And not being a being afraid of asking questions. So many people are terrified to reach out to people that I, hey, I have a question on this. How would you do this? Or could asking questions? And to be fair, there’s some people like you got to pay me for that. Anyone wants to reach out to me and ask me a question about programming and jump on a call with me.

[00:49:34] I will totally do that because I love to talk shop and help people out. Yeah.

[00:49:38] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And another thing too, is I’ve talked about this in the podcast and I’m sure you’d probably agree, but if you’re at a conference, for God’s sakes, ask questions to people, because I understand that some people get, Tons of DMS from crazy people who asked really my favorite one, which I always laugh is I have a quick question and it’s seven paragraphs.

[00:49:59] And you’re like, yeah, I want to try to help this poor person, but I don’t even know what they said. I don’t know. Oh, totally. But if you’re at a conference, I always think that. I know all these people paid to be there, which is not an easy thing. They took time off. They, a lot of them had to drive, they had to pay for the conference.

[00:50:18] So I know they’re already committed. So it’s very easy for me to answer questions at a conference because I know they’re already vested in the thing and then you can ask questions back. You can be like, Oh what about this? Or what about that? Sometimes with I have a short question that’s seven paragraphs, so you don’t know where to start.

[00:50:33] Those get a little bit interesting at times. So I would tell people like, yeah, definitely ask questions for sure. And if you’re at a conference, by all means ask questions. Because I remember years ago, this is probably 16 years ago, maybe I went to a conference and Dan John was there and Dan was like, Hey, we’re going to be at the bar later.

[00:50:55] If anyone wants to come hang out, I was like, Oh, I used to hang out at the bar with Dan John. This is so crazy. And so I like get there. Like I’m all super early. There was like eight of us out of a conference of 120 people. And I’m looking around and I’m thinking you don’t even have to drink. Like you can just come hang out.

[00:51:13] And it was weird to me that there wasn’t. More people there. And again, maybe it was just that conference. Maybe it was bad timing. Who knows? But I think a lot of times people think, Oh, I can’t do that. I can’t like the person is there. Like most of the time, they’re more than willing to help answer questions, especially if they’re hanging around or whatever, and just.

[00:51:33] Tasha Wolf Whalen: It is interesting at these conferences that the fear of going up to someone and talking to them and asking them questions, like if you’re there and you’re traveling, you’re spending all that money and willing to invest yourself and dedicate your time to that. Go all in. Don’t be afraid to go up to people.

[00:51:50] And it’s not just even about the speakers, right? Oh, there’s tons

[00:51:53] Dr Mike T Nelson: of attendants that are great.

[00:51:55] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. Other attendees, how much knowledge is in that room? That’s not just the speakers presented, make friends, go out to lunch with people. That’s what I do. Every conference I would, I meet new tons of new people because that’s part of my goal of going there is yes.

[00:52:11] To learn, to be a part of it, be present, be focused, but also to network and build relationships. And that’s again, and you will have resources. Lots of resources, people you can reach out to, Hey, it’s great to talk to you at the conference. I have a couple questions. Do you have time to jump on a call with me?

[00:52:26] More people are willing to do that and they’re more than happy to do that. Especially when you feel like you’re valuable and you can be a resource to someone and help them out. Yeah, absolutely. People wanna do that.

[00:52:37] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, totally. And a lot of times, like some of the best conversations you have are, like you said, maybe not even with the presenters are probably not even in the talk or in.

[00:52:46] The hallways are at lunch or at the bar after. And I don’t know why I’m always surprised by this, but even I went, I was speaking at ISSN and so went to the president’s dinner the night before. And we’re just hanging out. Ended up having a hour and a half chat with two of the top premier protein researchers in the world.

[00:53:03] And they’re both like on their phones, like trying to pull up studies about things and I got to just ask them questions. And it was funny. One of the guys, he was just like, it’s Oh yeah, I know you. And I said, Oh yeah, I’ve been in a bunch of conferences and stuff. He’s no. You were the only guy who came to my poster.

[00:53:19] Nine years ago when I first started and asked me questions about it, I was like, really? He’s yeah. I was like, oh, he’s you’re my friend. I’m like, oh, cool. I was like, I don’t remember doing that, but I guess it was good. Remember. And that’s the thing

[00:53:35] Tasha Wolf Whalen: too. There’s so many missed opportunities when you don’t speak up.

[00:53:39] Or opportunities that could come about. So I was back in several years ago, a few years ago PPSC, Dr. John Russen, right? So I would stick around, talk shop with him, and build that relationship and build that rapport on a master instructor for the PPSC course. And I, Tons, like all over the country.

[00:53:58] I go in and present his courses because I built that relationship. I spoke up, I asked a lot of questions when, during his very first presentation that he’s ever done was that bigger ground. Oh yeah. So like doing stuff like that again, doors can open by you speaking up and being present and asking questions and being involved and engaged with people like opportunities can really come about doing that.

[00:54:21] So don’t miss out on an opportunity and not

[00:54:23] Dr Mike T Nelson: speak up. Yeah, especially if you’re a presenter, there’s nothing worse than, do you have any questions, and no one asks a single question, and you’ve budgeted, time to do it, and then when you’re done everybody seemed to have a question, and again, I don’t care I don’t mind answering their questions, but it’s I bet there is, More than enough people in the room who wanted to hear your question, just ask the question, and so like everyone can learn that.

[00:54:50] And

[00:54:51] Tasha Wolf Whalen: that’s the thing, you know that if you have a question, there’s likely someone else in the room or multiple people that have the same or similar question, and they would really benefit from you asking it. So someone needs to chime in and speak up. Yeah.

[00:55:03] Dr Mike T Nelson: Any good book recommendations for programming?

[00:55:07] You had mentioned there’s a lot of books you like, and I always feel like I struggle with this question because I feel like it’s very It’s almost like a very niche question. Like I can rattle off a whole bunch of programming books, but I always feel stuck without asking them like 20 more questions.

[00:55:24] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, that’s fair. Yeah, I would say science and practice of training. That is oh my gosh, how do you say his name? Oh yeah,

[00:55:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah.

[00:55:35] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I always say that weird. Yeah. It’s a decent book too. Yeah. Triphasic.

[00:55:43] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Thank you. Good call. Good call.

[00:55:48] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Wow. Where am I? Let’s see. Brad Schoenfeld’s book.

[00:55:50] That’s what I’m looking at right now. Science and development of hypertrophy. Yep. That’s a good one. Gosh, what else is there? There’s lots. Joel Jameson his

[00:56:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: ultimate MMA.

[00:56:02] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, that one’s great. Yeah. That’s a great one for conditioning. Again, conditioning is a big part of programming that people miss out on.

[00:56:08] Was it built to help Josh

[00:56:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: Bryant? Oh, I haven’t read that one. Okay.

[00:56:12] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. That one’s good. Yeah. And those are pretty solid for sure. I really did like triphasic. I thought that was,

[00:56:18] Dr Mike T Nelson: Very nice. Yeah. Oh, maybe I might like the second one. I just turned in a rough copy of it. So I’m helping Cal with it.

[00:56:24] So hopefully it’ll be out soon. Yeah. Yeah. It’s all new stuff too. So it’s all new stuff. So do you have any favorite programming books? I always feel like The Zadciorski one and Super Training are like classics, but I have this thing where I don’t think anyone understands anything that’s ever been read in either one of those books.

[00:56:46] I think it’s like one of those things where they’re amazing and I love Melsif like I never got to meet him and but at the same point they’re so dense. I wish someone would have told me years ago that If you read super training, just start with one chapter and don’t expect you’re going to understand everything because I beat the crap out of myself trying to understand that book for years.

[00:57:13] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I take bits and pieces. I’m like, okay, I understand this and that stuff. It’s a great book. It’s phenomenal, but oh

[00:57:19] Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, the material is awesome.

[00:57:21] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So there’s just so much in that, but yeah, if you can, if you could sit through that and get through it and pick some solid nuggets out, then you’re good.

[00:57:32] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. The other one I find too, which is a little bit dated is Practical Programming by Dr. Lon Kilgore. I thought that was a really nice summary of different methods and it wasn’t, even now I recommend that as just, if you want just general idea of programming, that’s still my go to.

[00:57:49] It’s not super in depth in any one particular thing, but I thought it gave a really nice kind of overview and background and history and stuff too.

[00:57:56] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I also like Chad Wesley Smith’s and Mike Isretel’s. book.

[00:58:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, I heard that was good. Yeah.

[00:58:02] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Science and principles of strength training. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:05] Dr Mike T Nelson: That’s a good one.

[00:58:06] Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Two final questions here. Any other books or media or anything that you’re into right now that you would recommend to other people?

[00:58:17] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I would say well, I did really enjoy although yeah, Ignite the Fire, John Goodman’s book. That was a pretty good one. Conscious coaching.

[00:58:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I haven’t read that one yet.

[00:58:31] But I’m presenting with him this fall. So I’m excited.

[00:58:34] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah. And always a good one. I know, this is a One that gets thrown around a lot, but Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. Okay. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. I always revisit that one for sure. I really enjoyed can’t hurt me.

[00:58:52] What is that?

[00:58:53] Dr Mike T Nelson: David Goggins. Yeah.

[00:58:55] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I really enjoy that kind of stuff. And classic to Simon Sinek’s. Why, or know your why, what is . Yeah. That’s also a solid book to read too. Yeah, I’m always reading books again, I’m not trying to look around like . All my books Relentless and Grover was good and okay, I could keep on reading out my books, but I’ll spare you of doing that.

[00:59:17] Oh, nice. If anyone wants book recommendations, feel free to reach out. ’cause I can do mindset books, I can do training books, whatever. I got lots. Awesome. Joe DeBranco’s podcast. I really enjoy listening to that. Obviously your podcast. I follow that regularly. Same with Vigor Life. Luca, host of ours.

[00:59:37] Podcast is really great. So yeah, some of those things I can get. Yeah. Solid.

[00:59:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much, I really appreciate all your time, and where can people find you? I feel like you’re everywhere now. You’re teaching for John, you’re on TMAG, you’ve got all your great stuff on Instagram.

[00:59:55] Tasha Wolf Whalen: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at ironwolf03. I have been writing for T Nation now for a handful of months, so I have about six or seven articles up there now, and I still have a lot in the works. You can also see some of my articles. I have a few on muscle and fitness that I helped Shane McLean, right?

[01:00:14] So Shane’s awesome there. Shane is great. Yes. You can find me at idealstrength. com. If you’re interested in programming, I have a programming app available on there with 20 plus programs of all endurance, strength, hypertrophy sport specific and lots of programs. So if you want to learn programming, There you go.

[01:00:36] Hey, jump on that app. It’s really cheap. It’s 40 bucks a month and there’s again, 20 plus programs you can work through. So that’s cool. And then you can find me on Facebook too, at Tashayla Wolf Whalen.

[01:00:47] Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. And if someone wanted to train with you in person, where would that information be?

[01:00:52] Tasha Wolf Whalen: If you want to train in person, I am in Washington, just outside of Seattle in Bellevue, Washington. So if you’re in the area, I’m happy. Beautiful area. Yeah, it’s a great area. Yeah. Beautiful. We’re a little bit gloomy today, but it’s, Seattle, so it makes sense. Even in August, but yeah, great area.

[01:01:07] Washington’s awesome. If you want to relocate to Washington to trade with me. Awesome. Let’s go for

[01:01:11] Dr Mike T Nelson: it. Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much for all your stuff. I really appreciate it. And thank you for sharing so much about programming. And let me pick your brain about all my crazy questions too.

[01:01:23] Tasha Wolf Whalen: I appreciate your time and thank you for having me on.

[01:01:25] It was great. It was a pleasure.

[01:01:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. Thank you so much. See you

[01:01:29] Tasha Wolf Whalen: later. Appreciate you.

[01:01:31] [01:01:31] Dr Mike T Nelson: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast.

[01:01:34] Huge thanks to Tasha for being on the podcast again. It was great to finally meet her this past year in person, which was awesome. Make sure to check out all of her great stuff, especially on Instagram, her writing over at Teen Nation and many other locations. She’s done writing and videos for. A huge thanks to her for giving up her time to be on the podcast to share everything with you.

[01:01:57] I also want to let you know the Flex Diet Certification. We’ll open again in January 2024. I’ve got a couple things that are moving around so I don’t know the exact date yet. Most likely probably around the middle of January. So if you’re looking for the complete solution for nutrition and recovery for both yourself or for high level athletes or any clients that you teach, it is actually designed for everything from general population all the way up to high level athletes.

[01:02:31] Surprisingly, a lot of high level athletes have horrible nutrition. So many times they don’t need anything super advanced, like you can get to that point, but a lot of times they just need good, solid information in order to start. So in the Flex Diet Cert, cover everything from protein, fats, carbohydrates, fasting, NEAT, which is non exercise activity thermogenesis, such as walking, exercise, sleep, and much, much more.

[01:03:01] You can find out all about it either by going to FlexDiet. com or you can go to my newsletter, which you can hop on at miketnelson.com/podcast. Scroll down and be able to get on the newsletter for free. That’s where I’ll have all the announcements as soon as I get the exact dates figured out.

[01:03:20] Again, right now we’re looking at probably mid January 2024. FlexDiet cert as of now only opens twice a year. For one week, so go check that out huge. Thanks for listening to the podcast as always really appreciate it Thank you so much And if you have time hit the little subscribe button, and then if you can leave us Whatever stars are appropriate or even a short review that is a huge help to us with the little algorithms So that we can get this distributed to more people.

[01:03:53] so much greatly. Appreciate it Talk to all of you next week

[01:03:58] Do you suppose they have any life on other planets? What do you care? You don’t have any life on this one!

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