Episode 250: Balancing Art and Algorithm in Fitness Content Creation with Shane McLean of Muscle and Fitness Mag

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[00:00:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome back to the Flex Diet podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase muscle, better performance, strength, and to do this all with better body composition without destroying your health in the process. I apologize today. There’s a little bit of an echo in here.

[00:00:22] I’m recording this from Mexico. So we are down here for a couple of weeks, which is great. Just hanging out working. The place we’re staying is amazing, but all the walls are concrete. So it does echo a little bit in here. And on today’s podcast, we’ve got Shane from Muscle Fitness. We have an awesome discussion.

[00:00:45] about all the things that go into the writing process for fitness. So if you are working to be a better communicator, overall, or even in the fitness space, you will love this podcast. Shane has allowed me to publish some of my stuff in Muscle Fitness, always coming up with great article ideas and editing them.

[00:01:06] And he’s got some wonderful words of wisdom here. Everything about the writing process, how to get started, what things you should do. We even get into the role of AI and many other side topics. This one was recorded when we were down in Texas. The recording on my end sounds a little bit funky, but I tried to clean it up as best as I could.

[00:01:31] I’m trying to keep the audio on these as high quality as possible, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out that way but I think you will enjoy this podcast for sure. And also for the Flex4 questions Shane was kind enough to give us his top four tips for writing. So if you want that, go to MikeTNelson.com/Flex4. That’s MikeTNelson. com forward slash F L E X, the number four. And opt in there at the newsletter and we will send that exclusive content directly to you. You also be on the daily newsletter that way also. So go to mikejnelson. com forward slash flux four. And then also if you’re interested in a very tasty electrolyte drink that I brought a whole crap ton with me down here to Mexico.

[00:02:26] My favorite is LMNT, go to drinkLMNT.com/MikeNelson, and that’ll put you over to their site. My favorite right now is actually the grapefruit flavor. I’m generally not a big grapefruit fan, but they did a excellent job with theirs, especially if you are traveling on a lot of plane flights.

[00:02:49] We had a couple of flights to get down here. We were in Orlando the weekend before. So having a one liter container, I just fill up at the airport drop a container, a little individual packet of element in it, and you are good to go. My little rule of thumb is I try to drink at least one of them per plane flight.

[00:03:08] And it definitely does seem to help because planes can be air can be very hot, dry, and can dry you out a little bit on that. So if you enjoy that I highly recommend Element they have no questions asked. So if you don’t like it, just let them know and they’ll get you a full refund. So go to drinklmnt.com/MikeNelson. You’ll find links to both of these in your favorite podcast player below. Thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it and enjoy this talk about fitness writing with Shane from muscle and fitness.

[00:03:45] [00:03:45] Dr Mike T Nelson: Hey, welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast.

[00:03:48] Thank you so much, Shane, for being here. Really appreciate

[00:03:50] Shane McLean: it. Hey, thank you. for having me, Mike. This is

[00:03:53] Dr Mike T Nelson: awesome. Yeah. And the topic today is 21st century content creation. Cause you’re obviously been doing writing for quite a while. You’re doing editing or working with different magazines and everything else.

[00:04:06] So you’re right in the middle of the industry doing that, which is always nice to chat with people who are just like trainers and obviously you work as a trainer too, so you have a background in that area too, but it’s nice. I always think of Lou Schuller, I think it was the first. Editor I was aware of that actually had a CSCS, understood exercise to a pretty hard high degree, but was, also trained as a hardcore journalist, which I thought, wow, that’s super cool.

[00:04:36] Like that. I didn’t realize

[00:04:38] Shane McLean: he was a strength and consistency specialist. I didn’t realize that.

[00:04:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I remember him bitching about the test for quite a while. I don’t know how long he kept it up, but he definitely did it once and passed. So I thought that was very cool.

[00:04:52] Shane McLean: Yeah. Lou is one of those people who have been very

[00:04:55] Dr Mike T Nelson: good to me.

[00:04:56] Oh, nice. He’s such a nice guy, too. And he’s, if you ever get to hang out with him in person, as I know you have, he’s absolutely hilarious, too, at the same time.

[00:05:06] Shane McLean: Yeah. No Lou’s been a big help to me. And he’s, put me on the right track and given me a kick in the ass when it’s needed.

[00:05:15] Dr Mike T Nelson: That’s always good. I remember one of the times I was with him at Paleo FX, and he got lost trying to walk to the venue, and I asked him the second day, I said how did you get to the venue today? Did you use your phone for directions? He’s no, I just followed a bunch of women who looked like they could kick my ass and figured I was going in the right direction.

[00:05:35] Shane McLean: Ha.

[00:05:36] Yeah, that’s that. That sounds like yeah, that’s it. That sounds like I’m. Yeah, Lou. Lou is great. I think when we come to Jack lanes, almost like the godfather of fitness. Yeah, I think Lou is probably the godfather of fitness writing. He was really the one who started putting it on the map.

[00:05:57] For that combination of writing and training. Yeah, definitely. Like a hybrid, yeah. I grew up reading his stuff, like probably you did and probably a lot of other trainers did. I bought his books, The New Rules for Lifting with Alan Crosgrove. Yeah. Man, that’s the way I used to program.

[00:06:17] That’s how I learned how to program was from those books. So yeah, I’ve learned

[00:06:21] Dr Mike T Nelson: a lot from Luke. And the nice part about that book too is that’s, It’s still one of those books where someone who’s I’m new to programming and I’m confused. It’s I just give them that book. It’s here, just take this, just use this.

[00:06:34] Like you’ll, especially for general population, like you’re going to be pretty good. If they want to go like even deeper, I’d say practical programming, my lawn kill gore is pretty good. They want to go balls deep by all means pick up super training, but don’t pretend like you’re going to understand anything in it and just, you can have it on your bookshelf and look cool, even though it’s an amazing book, it’s just one of those books, everybody says they read and they’re like, you ask them a question and they have

[00:06:59] Shane McLean: no idea.

[00:07:00] Yeah, I think the deepest I got was to the, is it to the bumper? And it’s periodization and serious strength training, all that kind of stuff. And there’s some, even that was over some of my head. Yeah. I didn’t really, I didn’t really need it, it was just good to know it.

[00:07:18] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. So where do you think Content is going now.

[00:07:23] I mean as of this recording I heard from rick collins that muscular development is closing in stores as a magazine. So there isn’t many Magazines, that’s what I heard. The rumor was they’re not doing the print magazine anymore And the rumor was they’re also not doing online or anything anymore So again, I don’t know how true that is.

[00:07:45] We will have a Correction by the time this episode is out, but in terms of mainstream, especially in the more hardcore Area as terms of print magazines, it appears like it’s dwindling pretty fast.

[00:08:01] Shane McLean: That’s correct so I write for muscle and fitness and the managing editor of that magazine is Jeff Tomko And Jeff Tomko said to me that everyone wants to be in the magazine, but nobody wants to read it.

[00:08:15] Yes

[00:08:17] Dr Mike T Nelson: That’s totally

[00:08:18] Shane McLean: true. And I think that really probably goes to the heart of it. I used to read men’s health. I used to get the magazine all the time. So I think in terms of print and online, I think it’s probably more like an evolution. As muscle fitness, they got bought out, they don’t do the magazine anymore.

[00:08:40] They did a specialty magazine for Olympia the past few years. I think that’s probably going the way of that more like specialty magazines rather than something coming out every month. I think there’s always a place for magazines only because I like pictures. That’s you can tell me what to do, but I like being shown what to do.

[00:09:06] So picking up a magazine is like picking up a newspaper, you read it. It’s that experience, maybe going to the movies, like one of the reasons why movies is still around on the big screen is because it’s the experience, right? So we can stream anything nowadays. So I think that’s the same with magazines.

[00:09:28] I think it’s just going to be an evolution, but yeah, everyone wants to be one. Nobody wants to buy one. I’m probably one of those people too.

[00:09:36] But yeah I, because it’s easier online, it’s easier to sell advertising. So yeah, I think that, it’s like the way of newspapers, right? Every newspapers are online by newspaper. Now it’s very expensive. Probably the same with magazines, right? Magazines are dwelling.

[00:09:55] It’s just going to be more expensive to buy one, but I don’t think, I think there’s still a place for them, particularly in the fitness realm, particularly for people who are starting out too.

[00:10:05] Dr Mike T Nelson: Do you think part of that is the model of advertisement because everything is so online now? So if you think of a standard print magazine, and I’m an advertiser, and I have a online business like the supplement store or whatever, I won’t name any names.

[00:10:22] Now, I have to get you from the offline version of it that’s not connected, either give you the coupon code or some code, and then expect you to take your phone, type in a URL, or scan a QR code, or do some sort of action, go to the site, and then look at it again. Versus, if it’s online, I just click a button and poof!

[00:10:42] The whole site and everything is there, and I can send you to a special page, and I can See how many eyeballs hit it, how long the conversion is, I can measure all these metrics like instantly where with print I’ve just noticed the transfer isn’t nearly as high especially if you’re a standard online business now I just wonder how much of that plays into it.

[00:11:03] Shane McLean: That’s a great point. Yeah, it’s simplicity, isn’t it? All right. It’s it. Definitely. It definitely is the simplicity of it because, people want to measure metrics. The only metric you have with magazines, is how many people

[00:11:16] Dr Mike T Nelson: buy them. And then you have the cost of, and I know this is an issue with a lot of magazines too obviously you have subscribers, right?

[00:11:23] So you know about how many people are going to be on there, how many people are going to drop off per month. But, then you’re supplying print magazines to all of these outlets. And then you’re printing them ahead of time. And then what if they don’t sell? Then they all come back to you at the end of the month.

[00:11:38] And so I just wonder if more magazines are going to go to a subscription only model where you can’t buy it and that is a good point, but you can still do a subscription if you want, because at least then they know their print costs. They know X amount of people are already going to get it and they don’t have to.

[00:11:56] It’d be like, and this happens with books a little bit too you print so many extra books. You hope that it sells, and if it doesn’t crap, you’re stuck with all this inventory now that you’re printing ahead of time.

[00:12:08] Shane McLean: Yeah, I think, funny you should say, because, we’re in Reisz’s bar in Dallas.

[00:12:13] Yes. And Molly Galbraith was just giving away a book. There’s nothing. Here you go. Sounds like her too. She’s just got a, she just had all these excess printed books and she was like, there you go. You can have a book for you. Book for you. Book for you. She was like, like Oprah. Yeah.

[00:12:29] Yeah. I think, yeah, I think you’re exactly right on that. I think that’s a good observation that’s spot on, but like you, like I said before, I think there’s always going to be a place just because it’s like going to the movies. It’s the experience. I still walk into a grocery store and pick up magazines.

[00:12:46] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I used to, I haven’t done that so much lately, but in the past I always would do that. I, that was for a while. That’s how I got article ideas because one of the tips I got from my business guy years ago was this is back probably 2015, 16, and magazines were quite a bit bigger than like the amount of money that they spent to try to figure out what headlines are working.

[00:13:10] Even in a print magazine is pretty high and they have been doing it for so long. They’ve got a pretty damn good idea of what works and what doesn’t. And so he told me, he’s just go to the magazine aisle, look at all the magazines, and then write down all the phrases on the front cover. And then Heysen you’re talking about?

[00:13:29] No, it was actually Christopher Guerrero. But yeah, Sean’s obviously worked in the industry for many years too. Yeah, and so I thought that was pretty brilliant. You’re not actually stealing the idea, but you’re, if you see ten magazines at the time, and fat loss is on every single one of them, maybe you should write something specific about fat loss, or if it was muscle gain, or if it was aching joints, or whatever it was a pretty cool way to get this really good Snapshot of kind of the industry overall at a glance.

[00:14:01] Shane McLean: That’s true. I think when you talk about which way it’s going, which guy and the way it’s going online, obviously search engine optimization is the shit, right? So every pretty much every, muscle and fitness don’t do it a lot, but the, that don’t care because they’ve got such a huge inbuilt readership anyway.

[00:14:26] And, but other websites I’ve worked for, that’s what they’re all about. They’re all about, they’re basically all about search engine optimization. So the way everything is formatted and headlined all these SEO tools that you use to make sure they have certain words and articles so they get lots of eyeballs.

[00:14:47] That’s definitely the way it’s going. I’ve found only in my experience that almost the formatting is. Almost more important than the content itself.

[00:15:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and you’ve got a whole Websites like this is public knowledge, but like barbin who started as an seo Group and had tons of money spent just trying to outline What is all the seo they want and all the articles were driven from seo? And you know when they exited they did pretty good You could argue they might have exited at the perfect time.

[00:15:23] Josh ax did the same thing with his site that I, do you think SEO will continue to play as big of a role going forward as it has up until this date, especially as it seems like more and more content is just being pushed out online everywhere?

[00:15:43] Shane McLean: I don’t think Google’s going anywhere soon, right? I think Google’s, right?

[00:15:48] They basically got the monopoly. So yeah, no, I don’t think it’s going anywhere soon. And particularly, you can purchase stuff that does the SEO for you. So as a side note so Barbend was bought by Pillar 4 Media owns.

[00:16:08] Garage Gym Reviews, who I wrote freelance for. Ah, I didn’t know they did that. So now, Pillar 4 owns Bar Bandan and Breaking Muscle. So Pillar 4, who I freelance for, they’re huge into SEO and they have a little add on the Google Doc called Clearscope, which basically tells you all the words to put in the article.

[00:16:33] So no, the answer is no, I don’t think that, I think that is not going anywhere soon. SEO. And I think at least in my experience, that’s probably becoming more important than the content itself. It’s nobody’s worried about eating right, but they’re worried about the supplements they take. I suppose you could, you can you can make that analogy particularly with. Fitness content is that, yeah, it’s it is going that way, particularly with the amount of beginners coming in around New Year’s Day around this time. I think there’s, there’s always going to be always a space for good content, period.

[00:17:20] I’m a big believer and in actionable content. So when the reader reads something, you’re obviously familiar with this. That the reader will take something away from it and can implement it in their own training, their own life, whatever. I think if you’re not doing that, you’re probably wasting people’s time.

[00:17:41] Opinion articles are great, and I have plenty of those but I think in terms of actionable content that’s where it’s at. And hopefully the SEO doesn’t really take that over.

[00:17:54] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s probably like the two biggest tips I got from TC at TMAG was, tell a story like, yes, people may care a little bit about the research, but can you put some sort of story into it?

[00:18:07] Because no one’s going to go out and read PubMed. I do, but most people aren’t going to just go out and read PubMed. Even if they were, they don’t usually have the skillset to translate it. That’s a whole thing you have to be taught. And then he’s just make it actionable. What do you want them to do at the end of the article?

[00:18:23] And he’s if you do that and you’ve gotten good quality stuff, he’s you’ll be pretty good. I was like, Oh,

[00:18:29] Shane McLean: wow. Yeah. I think you bring up a valid point and you’re great at this. Is that you can have all that knowledge, but you’ve got to express it in a way people can understand it.

[00:18:47] Not so much talking at their level, so to speak, but can they understand? And I do some editing for other trainers on the side. I think a lot of trainers and fitness professionals and coaches, and even still now they get caught up in the fancy language, which is. There’s a pot, there’s a place for it.

[00:19:07] Oh, sure. No doubt because we’ve all been educated. But this is when we, you got to consider your audience. So say muscle and fitness is meatheads. You start throwing down movement terms on muscle and fitness, they’re not going to have any idea, right? So instead of saying spinal flexion, saying don’t bend your back.

[00:19:30] Yeah. Although it sounds stupid to you and me. And it is to them it makes complete sense. So I think simplifying it so people can understand it. And I think, was it Einstein that says, said that if you can’t explain something simply then you have gaps in your knowledge and you need to go

[00:19:52] Dr Mike T Nelson: back.

[00:19:53] Yeah. You don’t understand it well enough. Yeah,

[00:19:55] Shane McLean: You don’t understand it well enough. So I. I’m not the smartest guy. I bit that, but I can take a complex subject much like yourself and simplify it so people can understand it.

[00:20:12] And like I said, that bleeds into the actionable context. ’cause the people can understand it, they can implement it.

[00:20:20] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I, no, I totally agree with that. And I think we see this a little bit less in fitness now, but tell me what your thoughts are. I think we still see some. Newer trainers trying to sound extremely educated to impress other trainers, but yet when you ask them who their audience is, it’s not other trainers.

[00:20:42] They’re not selling certifications. They’re not training other trainers. They’re trying to train the average. Jim Gore, to me, that always feels like a weird disconnect, like they want to write these really technical articles to get respect from other trainers, but yet they’re actually trying to communicate something to the average person going to the gym, or instead of doing what you said, just, yeah, maybe take some complicated stuff and make it simple.

[00:21:09] Because your audience is actually that person you, you want to train as your next client and who cares like what other trainers think about you, but it just seems like there’s this weird conflict that they have at the same time they’re trying to do two things at once.

[00:21:24] Shane McLean: I think we all do

[00:21:27] Dr Mike T Nelson: it. Oh, and I’m guilty of this in the past and probably even still now.

[00:21:32] Shane McLean: I’ve done it. Yeah, I’ve certainly done it. I think. And much like you, cause you have a lot of coaches who follow you, me included, but you basically speak to your general population. So you know who your audience is, I know who mine is. So I think it’s just a matter of obviously knowing who your audience is, like I read stuff online and it’s duh, that’s, I know that, that’s easy, but it’s not meant for me.

[00:22:02] It’s meant for, it’s meant for their potential client. So you gotta feed that into that. It’s definitely just knowing your audience, right? So if you train trainers, then that’s who you’re speaking to. If you train general population, that’s who you speak to. Usually, when you’re good at what you do, people gravitate, all type of people gravitate towards your work.

[00:22:26] So you don’t need to specify one or the other. You just write to your audience and if it’s good, people will read it. Yeah I obviously write for general population, but I’m lucky enough that other trainers read my work and they like it and I have respect for that. That’s great. But I don’t write for them.

[00:22:51] I write for general population. So like you said, I think knowing your audience is key, but also just getting good at what you do. And you’re a fine example

[00:23:04] Dr Mike T Nelson: of that. Oh thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, there’s never going to be a substitute for just getting better at it. And even the thing that surprised me obviously I have the Flex Diet Cert and the Fizz Flex Cert, which are specifically geared to trainers.

[00:23:17] And when I first came out with the Flex Diet Cert, I was targeting gym owners and I had the whole system set up that, if you had 100 or 200 people at your gym, you could put one person in charge of all the nutrition. I had all the marketing, I had everything all built out for it. I’m like, I won’t even charge you a licensing fee.

[00:23:35] And what I realized was most gym owners are not very good at business, and they just couldn’t wrap their head around that they could outsource it to someone else in their gym and have another income stream. It just seemed like a pain in the butt to them. And so that, ironically, is like a very small percentage of the total sales.

[00:23:53] What was even more surprising to me was about 40 percent of the sales of a certification, which is, a freaking 28 hour certification. It’s not easy. It’s actually fitness enthusiasts. Which I was surprised about and so Knowing that I actually changed my writing style to more Intermediate level fitness enthusiasts knowing that coaches will still get stuff out of it one because that’s the audience They’re going to communicate to and two they may learn some stuff but i’m always sometimes conflicted where I feel like if I talk Only the trainers and coaches, it almost makes it feel too niche and too advanced.

[00:24:31] And then I’ve almost narrowed it too far down, but even I, yeah, it’s even times I go back and forth and I’ve just landed on if I’m targeting the intermediate sort of semi advanced person, but trying to explain it to a language they can understand. It just feels like I get a lot of the trainers and other people come along for the ride.

[00:24:48] Or if I go more exclusively to trainers, then everyone else is Oh, screw you. I don’t understand anything you said. It just feels like a lot of it drops off.

[00:24:57] Shane McLean: That’s a good point. And then I think what you explained is knowing your audience. That’s a that, that’s a classic case.

[00:25:04] So trainers and coaches who come into the industry obviously you try everybody that you can. And develop a nation or who you like to train, but I think when it comes to, to content, that’s definitely a key is just, I know I’ve said it like five times already is just knowing your audience, right?

[00:25:26] Just having a feel for their problems, right? Now, knowing what they do, where they shop. All that kind of stuff, right? They walk into a gym, they see a piece of equipment, and it’s like, What the hell is that? What does it do? You explain it to them. That’s what it does. Oh, okay. So yeah definitely knowing your audience is key.

[00:25:47] And I’ll probably say that another five times during the interview.

[00:25:50] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and I think the shortcut, if there is a shortcut, is If you really know your audience and you really know like what their problems are and what their goals are, they will listen to you even if the quality of writing is not amazing, right?

[00:26:06] If they feel like the information is good, I think they will put up with a lot of other stuff because you’re helping them solve their problem. As opposed to Solving something that may not be a huge problem for them, then it becomes much more picky about what’s going on.

[00:26:25] Shane McLean: Yeah, that, yeah that’s very true.

[00:26:28] And we’re talking, we’re going to talk a little bit about AI. Yeah. And how basically everything can be done for you. I think there’s always going to be a place for good writing and good writing and understanding the kind of inner twine. The more you write, the more you understand it. The more you teach a squat to a client, the more you understand the squat.

[00:26:57] I think artificial intelligence is not going to replace that. I’m like almost every other fitness professional. I’ve got my head buried in the sand. I’m hoping it will go away, but it won’t. No. And I think, particularly with AI is everyone fears new technology. But my first fear was I was just going to be unemployed as a freelance writer.

[00:27:27] And that hasn’t happened. So there’s still a place for good writing. So they could generate all their articles from AI if they wanted to, all these websites, right? Put an author’s name to it. Who would not? But they don’t. They’re still employing writers, there’s still a place for good writing is because they understand the material.

[00:27:57] Not saying AI doesn’t, but they obviously pull from different sources and all that kind of thing. It’s like a place, like the movies, again, like the movie analogy, it’s the experience. There’s always going to be a place for movie because people want to go see it on the big screen. Yes, you can generate a lot of your content through AI, but I think you can generate it, but if you don’t understand it, if you don’t have a deep level of understanding it, then it’s going to show through. I think that there’s that little subtle difference. There’s AI, a lot of kids are using AI to do papers and all that kind of stuff now.

[00:28:37] And, they’ve got detectors for it. But I feel, yes, you can use AI. But you still got to have a, you still, as a fitness professional, you still have to have a good level of understanding. And I think people’s bullshit detectors are probably higher than they’ve ever been. So I think you can sniff out, I think you can sniff out bullshit pretty easily.

[00:29:02] Many people do. Cause all you have to do is get on and Google it, you’ll say,

[00:29:06] Dr Mike T Nelson: right? I’m not teaching this quarter, I might be next quarter, I don’t know yet, the schedule’s not out, but it’s fascinating and weird to me I played around with just the free version of GPT because I have a FlexDive mentorship where we talk about the use of AI and stuff, so I wanted to get at least educated enough on the free version just to see what it’s good for, what it’s not, and then plus knowing I’m going to have to probably teach students again, and a big portion of that is writing essays, And on one hand, it’s scary that you type in, I took some of my old assignments and just put them in the chat GPT and just to see what it would spit out.

[00:29:44] And on one hand, it spits out something for a boring, academic y formal paper is pretty damn good. Now, when I cross checked it for accuracy, it wasn’t very accurate, which maybe that problem will get solved in the future. So like you said, I think you still have to understand the material for sure. But I was also horrified that I’m like, if I was not a subject matter expert in this, I wouldn’t really know without doing a lot of work and checking, each reference because it sounded really good in terms of boring academic papers.

[00:30:15] I’m like, shit, I would have given this probably like a B or an A minus, maybe, but I, so then I thought, okay, how would I rework it knowing that AI is not going to go away, knowing that some of the checkers maybe are there, maybe or not, who knows, that’s another huge debate. So my thought is, I would say, okay, original essay from scratch. Do not use technology. I’m not worried about referencing. Okay, then paper two, same topic, just put it in the chat dpt, have it spit out whatever it’s going to spit out. Now you have to go in and check that paper for accuracy. So I would force students to see where is the AI good and where is it not.

[00:30:55] And then your third paper you submit, you can do whatever the hell you want with it, but it has to be accurate and it has to be up to the standard and all the references have to be correct, whatever. Because I think Putting your head in the sand and pretending the eye is going to go away and that no students are ever going to try to sneak one past you and throw it into chat GPT.

[00:31:14] It’s not realistic to, I don’t know how the hell I would prove even if I knew with the shadow of adult that they did it. There’s no way for me to, go to my dean and say, I think this paper is just from chat TPT because it doesn’t give you the same thing all the time either. So I think showing them what are the pros, what are the cons to me allows them to use it as a tool, which they’re going to, and just hopefully use it as a better tool to actually get better at writing because then you’re back to the original thing.

[00:31:44] Anyway, was, you still have to know how

[00:31:47] Shane McLean: to friggin write. You still have to know the material,

[00:31:50] Dr Mike T Nelson: right? Then you have to know the material they’re talking

[00:31:52] Shane McLean: about, yeah, and particularly when it comes to that, when it comes to cheating, I’m just of the opinion that you’re only really cheating yourself. I know that’s a little bit deep and meaningful, but you really are, right?

[00:32:09] You’re just cheating, you’re just cheating yourself. You might get a good grade and you’ve taken the shortcut, but it’ll bite you on the butt. When you don’t know your stuff and you sit down and have to do the final exam and you don’t know a thing. So I think that kind of stuff always catches up to you.

[00:32:32] It’s like the person who performs all these shortcuts in the gym and doesn’t get results, right? Catches up to them, right? They’re gonna realize that I know it’s cliche, but there’s no substitute for hard work, Mike. All right, and also not only that you’ve got to suffer for your craft

[00:32:54] Dr Mike T Nelson: too. Oh, yeah So

[00:32:56] Shane McLean: this is part of the process.

[00:32:56] It just takes time. A lot of people don’t have to not only do people not have time They’re not patient. And that’s where shortcuts come in particularly with AI.

[00:33:11] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah same idea to students I would always emphasize especially to like juniors and seniors and even some of the graduate students. I would teach is that Okay you might be able to bullshit your way through part of this class, and I realize that may happen, no matter how hard I try to prevent it.

[00:33:27] But at some point, you’re gonna be in the real world. And guess what? People are gonna expect you to know shit. And if you don’t know your shit Like you’re gonna have issues And it’s amazing that you have to Sometimes sit down and tell students this it’s like they didn’t think that far ahead I’m sure i’m guilty of this when I was a student is that It’s just the next exam or the next thing or the next class.

[00:33:50] It’s okay, great So you graduate let’s say you get a high grade you get hired Guess what that employer or if you’re self employed or whatever? They expect you to know your stuff. , that’s why they hired you, .

[00:34:04] Shane McLean: So the gig’s gonna be up, like I said, it comes Yeah. Like it, like I said, before it comes, it will all come to a head.

[00:34:11] It comes back to bite from the butt. Yeah. But yeah, I think like any new technology, you implement it, you take the best out of it. You leave the rest behind. Yeah. I think it’s gonna be, I think it’s gonna be, I think it, it’s gonna be a great tool. When I eventually learn how to use it, which is not now, but I will because it’ll just make certain things that used to be time consuming, easier.

[00:34:38] And when, we’re all about efficiency, Mike, so if it takes us less time to do a mundane task, we’ll do it right. Because that’s time spent best on other things as well. So in terms of efficiency, I think AI is going to be great.

[00:34:54] You still got to have a level of understanding too.

[00:34:57] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I’ve noticed like I’ve tried to use chap GPT to write stuff from scratch and just to play around with it and see how it does it. And I don’t know any of this stuff that I would ever put out under my name. It all just sounds boring as hell.

[00:35:15] It’s not that accurate for what it is. It’s not bad, but I have found it’s useful for. Iterations of titles iterations of phrases, give me 10 versions of this and I have found it useful for having it revise stuff and other people’s voices, even though I wouldn’t use that. So example is used is revise this essay in the voice of Joe Rogan or David Goggins, or, people that are popular and out there and it’ll give all these weird phrases that.

[00:35:45] Don’t sound like me, but when I go back and I force myself to revise that version again, because of those intermediate phrases, I’ll get to something else that I didn’t get to before. So right now, I’m probably making my writing process more inefficient. They have this intermediate step. Oh yeah,

[00:36:04] Shane McLean: but you’re just sorting it out though.

[00:36:06] Dr Mike T Nelson: You’re just working through it. But I feel if without that intermediate step it was much harder to get to something else and I’ll get to a different place, I’ll think of Oh, I like that phrasing there. Or, oh, this, oh, I could take this phrase here and modify these four words and use that.

[00:36:23] So it just feels like it’s a way of giving another creative spin that’ll, at least for my, gets me to a different place. I may not have gotten to otherwise. So I think it has improved the overall quality, even though. The process right now that I’m doing is paradoxically longer than what I was doing before

[00:36:44] Shane McLean: But yeah, that’s there.

[00:36:45] No, yeah, but I mean it’s going to be longer now, but it’ll be shorter later

[00:36:49] Dr Mike T Nelson: And at some point it’ll get like any new process. It’ll get easier and faster and better with it

[00:36:55] Shane McLean: You brought up a point that I don’t know. Jeez, it could have been maybe seven eight years ago. I was in church And my pastor said that basically you should strive to be The same person online than you are in person. So my ultimate compliment when somebody meets me for the first time, who’s known me online and says you’re exactly who I thought you would be.

[00:37:24] And I think if it comes, when it comes down to AI, if you get AI to do your stuff, then you’re going to have people who meet you for the first time. They’re not going to get the true you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you’re a classic case. You’re a case of it. I think the way that you talk in your emails and online, in, in your blog posts, you meet you in person, you’re exactly the

[00:37:46] Dr Mike T Nelson: same.

[00:37:47] Oh, thank you. I appreciate that .

[00:37:49] Shane McLean: Yeah. I dunno if that’s a deliberate intent, but I think what you’re saying with you’re messing around with AI and all that kind of stuff. If you were to put out something like that in that voice, I think your audience would pick that up right away, that it wasn’t you.

[00:38:02] .

[00:38:02] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and I think it’s the one thing I did also too is similar to that is that my I guess my bet going forward is that the internet and everything is going to be diluted with just very boring ass vanilla content. So if you can make stuff that’s again useful to the person accurate and semi infotainment.

[00:38:24] I think that’s going to set you apart even further from all the other crap. So I’ve even tried in the past year just to make the writing process more interesting to me. Like how accurate and actionable could I make it? But yet, don’t be afraid of just making it sound batshit crazy at times.

[00:38:45] Shane McLean: Yeah, are you good at that?

[00:38:47] Dr Mike T Nelson: No, it’s not boring because I realized about a year ago I was getting bored with the writing process. And I felt like I was probably writing too technical when I didn’t have to. And so now I’m just like, I don’t know and you’ll notice this if anyone’s been on my newsletter list, you’ll notice some emails are a little bit more straightforward.

[00:39:04] They’re a little bit more dry. Some I’m just, I get bored. I’m like, how fucking wacky can I make this and have it sound halfway decent? And then it made the writing process interesting for me again, and I was like if I’m bored doing this, why would I expect people to read it? And they’re going to be bored.

[00:39:18] No one’s going to be interested in that. So I think finding ways to make it interesting for you or challenging as a writer, I think does show through in the end, having something that’s a little bit better quality too. And

[00:39:33] Shane McLean: to get it halfway decent, I think it brings up a fair point to get halfway decent.

[00:39:39] At writing, that is the process of like finding your own voice is what you’re talking about. When you start writing, you start putting stuff out on Facebook. You have no idea. So I got, I’ve been influenced by Tony Jenicor because he found a way to weave humor and technical knowledge together and made it readable and made it fun.

[00:40:09] I took a real leaf. out of Tony’s book because he’d referenced about poking your eyeballs out, banging your head against a brick wall and somebody does a spot wrong, that kind of stuff. To me, that was funny. Yeah, that was funny. I think as coaches and as fitness professionals, sometimes we take ourselves too seriously.

[00:40:34] But it’s not rocket science. It’s fitness, baby. Let’s go. So I think, the technical aspect is great and that will always have a place. But having a little bit of fun with it too. Inserting a joke here or there. Inserting your personality. Again, it’s that people who meet you for the first time will go, Oh, you’re exactly who I thought you would be.

[00:41:00] I use sense of humor in my training all the time. My clients are like laughing on the floor because I’m just not, I’m not serious. It’s fun. I think putting the bit, a little bit of fun into your content and particularly into your training and into your emails just lets the audience know who you really are and you’re just more relatable, right?

[00:41:23] They still take you seriously because you’re still not your stuff, but you’re not walking around with a stick up your arse.

[00:41:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah, and I’ve been on some other email lists of people who are more on the hardcore research side and they do an okay job of trying to communicate some concepts to the fitness enthusiasts, but holy shit, I get bored reading them.

[00:41:46] And I like this stuff. Like I read PubMed for fun and I get bored. It’s and if I’m getting bored Ooh, yikes.

[00:41:54] Shane McLean: Yeah. So another huge guy in our space is Lee Boyce. Yeah. I love Lee. Yeah. So Lee’s helped me a lot. Lee is more of a serious type person. Yes. Yeah. Lee’s straight down the line.

[00:42:12] But if you meet him, like I did in Raise the Bar in Dallas, that’s who he is. Yeah.

[00:42:19] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Totally.

[00:42:21] Shane McLean: There’s no who I am. I like to joke around and have a little bit of fun, but that’s not late at least. Yep. Straight down the line, blinkers on, let’s go. And there’s no one more prolific and more knowledgeable and more probably better at their craft.

[00:42:39] And there is like voice because, he’s found his voice. That’s it.

[00:42:45] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, Sam Miller is like that too. I love Sam and I love all this stuff. And he’s been on the podcast and then you can go back and listen to the podcast episode I did with him. And my whole little secret goal was to just try to get them a little bit more animated cause he’s very knowledgeable, very, but just straight ahead.

[00:43:05] Here’s the thing, here’s the facts and here’s what we do. And which is great. I love this stuff. I think it’s awesome. After the podcast for a while, he probably thought. What the hell was this like, you know thinking I was gonna be more straight ahead and I was just trying to make it more Entertaining but a lot of the jokes I made just didn’t they throw the shaggy sky I was just trying to do it for fun and he was not really having any of it and he was very polite and the Very, great in interview and in that kind of stuff but it was yeah, it was interesting and part of the reason I did that is because I’m like Is this a writing style on purpose or maybe he’s a little bit different and then you know I’ve met him several times in person great dude.

[00:43:48] That’s just who he is. That’s this is personality, which is great it’s not a bad thing But again, it’s nice when the style matches the person in person because there’s other people who I won’t name in the industry who you see some of their videos or you see some of the writing and you’re like Wow, and then you meet him in person you’re like what the hell They’re like not even remotely like that But I think that’s definitely fading away, which is a good thing.

[00:44:16] Shane McLean: Yeah yeah, I think if anybody gets anything out of this podcast It’s basically be who you are online and in person be authentic, right? I think I mean in the age of bullshit and pr spins and marketing. I think there is There’s definite value in being authentic Right? In your content, in your videos, in your emails, whatever you put out there in the world, be authentic, be you, be who you are, tell stories, be engaging, give actionable content, have a little bit of fun, right?

[00:45:00] And it took me 10 years to be like that. It didn’t happen overnight. So I think if anybody gets anything out of this, it’s all those things, right? And if you do all that. And if you fail, then you’ve given it your best shot, right? I think I’ve always been very wary. I know you sell supplements.

[00:45:24] I’ve had as a trainer, I’ve had lots of people approach me trying to sell their stuff to me. I think there’s that old saying that it takes years to build a reputation, but seconds to destroy one. Oh, yeah. So I think that, again, that’s about being authentic. Particularly, when we, as much as stuff that you put out and as much stuff as I put out, you have to be careful.

[00:45:55] I recently, now that I’ve brought that up. So I recently wrote something for Muscle and Fitness, reviewing these four pieces of equipment. And I basically did it for a favor for a friend, which is probably a mistake. Hopefully Jeff doesn’t, Tomko doesn’t listen to this. Anyway, so have you heard of have you heard of the wear bands equipment where you wear resistance bands?

[00:46:22] No. Anyway, so that guy’s been bugging me for years so he read that article, he sent me an Instagram message, basically bagging the shit out of one of those pieces of equipment that he didn’t like, obviously he’s self interested as well. Yeah. And then I told him that, I just wrote about it I’ve never used it, and then he came back to me about you shouldn’t write about something you haven’t used.

[00:46:50] And I was like that’s a fair point. We’re all still learning. We all still make mistakes. That’s what I’m trying to say. But I didn’t give that a second thought about writing about it because I write to earn money. I probably made a little bit of an error in judgment in favor for a friend.

[00:47:11] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. But that’s the hard part is that you’ll never figure any of that stuff out without doing it. Cause I get a fair amount of emails from people that are like, Oh, I want to write for this magazine or this online place or this or that, or, I want to use spoken, whatever I want to speak there too.

[00:47:25] And, 99 percent of the time, these are people I don’t know. They’re not friends of mine. And I’m like, okay what have you done? Do you even have a blog? Do you have a newsletter? Have you put out actual content on Tik TOK instead of dancing around in your underwear or whatever?

[00:47:38] If you want to be a writer, show me some writing, wow, I haven’t really done anything yet. It’s okay are you someone who’s a very advanced trainer or coach and just hasn’t had time to write? So you have a lot of industry knowledge and they’re like I trained two people and, and I remember I’ve told this story before, like years ago, I was at the first, whatever it was like my friend, Phil put together the first like T Nation seminar in like the early, 2000s and.

[00:48:04] I was just a disaster. I was so nervous to be there. I threw up twice in the bathroom. It was just not a very good thing, but I remember at the very end, we were at this, cocktail party thing, I remember asking TC at the time. I said, Hey man, I said, I know you get this question like all the time, but I said, I have to ask you like, what do I do to, write for teen nation and he looked at me and he goes what have you done so far?

[00:48:27] I told him, I said I’m probably transferring out of engineering and probably getting into fitness. And he’s have you written anything? I said no, I said, I’m just going to take my CSCS and, start with a few clients and he looked at me and he goes come back in about five to eight years after you’ve actually done some shit, like walks away.

[00:48:47] And at first I was like, yeah, at first I was like, Oh, what a mean man. He’s so mean. And then later I realized, Oh shit. Like he’s a hundred percent correct. That was. He, hit the nail on the head. Fast forward, six years later, I’ve been working with people. I’ve got my CSCS I had done a bunch of writing.

[00:49:06] I sent him this note and said, Hey, TC, I don’t know if you remember me. We’re at this party. You told me to go away and do this. Here’s what I’ve done in the meantime. Here’s an article I’ve already done. I’ve been reading your site for 10 years. And he looked at it and he goes, yeah, cool. We’ll run this.

[00:49:22] Thanks.

[00:49:24] Shane McLean: I think it’s. A quote comes to mind, and I’m not sure if I’m exactly quoting this right from Ronnie Coleman, he said, everybody wants to get big, but nobody wants to lift big, heavy ass weights. Yeah. What you just described, right? Everybody wants to be famous, but nobody wants to do the work.

[00:49:44] They all want the shortcut, right? Like you say, I think I had a, I still have my blog. I’ve written my blog for about 10 years. Nice. So Avani. Started making money from writing the past four years. So I was writing for a good six or seven years, even before I got paid. Like I said, you have to suffer, you have to suffer for your craft.

[00:50:15] It’s something to be said for that. And for me, I did it took me a while to get any halfway decent and now I’m lucky enough, I write for muscle fitness. It’s something I don’t take for granted for sure, because there’s hundreds of people who can do what I do. So that helps me not to get too far ahead of myself.

[00:50:35] Every time I say, here’s my name on Mark , let’s go get excited. But yeah it’s very humbling. You still gotta keep doing a good job. You’re still gotta to, put your pants on the next morning. But yes, it’s very humbling. But yeah, like I said before, you gotta do the work.

[00:50:53] TC had a roundabout way of saying that to you. Maybe a little bit rude. It sounds like him

[00:51:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: though. I was exactly like him.

[00:51:03] Shane McLean: I don’t know him personally. I’ve read a lot of his stuff on T Nation. And yeah, but he did have a point, right? And I probably like you. I’ve had people approach me who go, how do I write for Muscle and Fitness?

[00:51:19] Yeah. I say, why don’t you like write on a blog for eight years? Yeah. Come back. Much like what TC said people see the instant result, but they don’t see all the work and all the training that goes into it. It’s like the plumber who comes to unblock your pipes and charges you to, 200 and they take five minutes to do it.

[00:51:46] It’s like, why is it so expensive? Because they’ve gathered the knowledge, they’ve got the experience, they know where to hit the nail on the head. And it’s the same with writing and content creation,

[00:51:57] Dr Mike T Nelson: right? Yeah, it’s I think in the music industry, it’s I knew a lot of metal bands and stuff who literally barely had enough gas money to get in their van to get to the next date on the tour.

[00:52:11] The exciting thing was, oh, wow, we have enough money to buy two meals today instead of one, and doing that for. A decade and a couple of cases all of a sudden they’re like a overnight success, you know Because before and you know the zeitgeist people didn’t see them They didn’t know of them and all of a sudden now, you know fast forward after doing it for 10 years within six months They’re, you know playing bigger sheds.

[00:52:34] They’re playing arenas that kind of stuff. And so from the outside it looks oh, wow They just started and now they’re like this, you know massively huge van, and pretty much all of them had a long kind of, run up like even Pantera had Different lead singer beforehand put out a couple albums was very much a glam rock, band for many years before Quote unquote their first album even you know, and that’s similar to writing It’s okay just keep working at your craft and then oh all of a sudden see you’re writing for muscle and fitness or whatever They just see the thing that’s in the lights, they don’t see all the work that’s gone in to get to that point.

[00:53:12] Shane McLean: So I think it’s, I think a good analogy for that is everyone sees the iceberg on top of the sea, everybody sees what’s underneath, right? All that struggle, all that ice that’s underneath, I think that’s the perfect analogy for that, right?

[00:53:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and last question like yes, I was like asking this to writers Does the writing process ever get to the point where it’s easy?

[00:53:37] Shane McLean: I think there are some days where it’s easier Yes, and some days where it’s not I think it’s like I said it’s one of those people talk about how you get writers block and Some people say it doesn’t exist and other people say that it does And other people stare at a blinking light on their Word document for half an hour without writing anything.

[00:54:03] I think the writing process becomes easier when you have a deep understanding of what you do. I think that’s, it becomes easier then. The process of writing is always going to be time consuming, always to the writing, to the editing to the formatting, all that kind of stuff. It’s always. It’s going to be time consuming.

[00:54:31] So easy, probably not the great word for it, probably efficient. Yeah. I’m probably more, I’m probably more efficient than I’ve ever been in producing work only because I have a good level of understanding about what I write about and I’ve done it enough times. But does the writing become easy?

[00:54:56] I don’t think it ever becomes easy, right? I think there’s always, there’s a certain level that. You sit there and you’re staring at the blinking dot on the, on your word doc screen thinking, what the hell am I going to write about? Yeah. So then I don’t think it becomes easy, but I think that’s a good thing.

[00:55:18] I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think that’s a good thing. If you’re serious about getting good at something, it’s not going to be easy because if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Everyone would be, everyone would have your kind of email list. Everyone will be writing for muscle and fitness.

[00:55:34] It’s not. It’s not easy. It takes time. But yes, I’d say, more efficient, yes, easy, no.

[00:55:43] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I like that because that was my area years ago. I kept thinking, I’m like, okay, I’ve been doing a daily newsletter list now for probably like a decade. And I wrote, a bunch of stuff probably two, three times a week before that for shit, probably almost another decade.

[00:55:58] And my thought process was, okay, at some point, this is just going to get easy. And I had a, I don’t know, revelation five years ago where I was getting all frustrated where I’m like, it got more efficient. I could definitely get more output out in the same amount of time, but it always felt like the process was still far from easy.

[00:56:16] And then I started following, some other writers and them talking about it and they’re like, Oh yeah, it never gets easy. Like it gets. Easier and make it more efficient like I can get more stuff done. I’ve got a better process I know different levers to pull but it was interesting to hear all these very good writers That dwarfed me by factor of a hundred I think like almost to a t Said that it never got easy for them and i’m like thinking.

[00:56:44] Oh shit. That’s probably good. So i’ll just give up that expectation then and like you said the process is the way the process is and That’s not a bad thing, right? I think of kiteboarding, it’s shit, I’ve been doing this for a long time and yeah, I can do some pretty good stuff on it, but there’s so many things like I can’t do, and I’ll probably never get to the point where I want to hit all the things I want to do just because it’s not easy.

[00:57:08] It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of practice, takes conditions, takes all these other things in order to do it. But that’s also part of the appeal. It’s like lifting. It’s are you ever really going to get to the point where you’re 100 percent satisfied with all your lifts? There’s another pound you could add.

[00:57:25] There’s another way you could do it. The amount of things you could potentially do are infinite. And you’re never going to master all of them. And that’s just the way it is. But that’s also the appeal to it, to keep doing it. Like you said, suffering day in and day out. Putting the work in, seeing the output, trying to get better at the process.

[00:57:43] It’s just, writing is the same way. It’s just that perpetual journey of it.

[00:57:48] Shane McLean: I think just with what you all think we just said, I think there’s something to be said for just being good. , yes. We could be excellent. Yes. Yeah. And I think striving for mastery in anything isn’t, is admirable and we should all do it, but we also should also strive for good.

[00:58:07] There’s something to be said for that, so not that good is good enough but I’m just saying you should strive to be good.

[00:58:15] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and my very last point on that is from the book Reigns by David Epstein, who, the thing I gotta take away from that is if you can be a good writer and have pretty good knowledge of fitness, for example, you can then be well, very good at the interface of those two items.

[00:58:33] So his point is that trying to be mastery and if they’re trying to be a pro level athlete or, one of the top authors in the world or pick any skill tennis player, it doesn’t matter to be the elite of the elite is extremely difficult and very few people are going to do that. However, if you’re good and two things and you overlap those and you are the best at that interface is like many people can do that with multiple different things and get to.

[00:58:58] A very high level, much faster than trying to seek absolute elite mastery in one area. So I thought that was super cool.

[00:59:07] Shane McLean: That is super cool. I didn’t know that. I haven’t read that book, but that he’s spot on. Yeah. I think it’s the same with what you told me about coaching and writing, right?

[00:59:17] There’s that interface right there. I think it’s perfect.

[00:59:21] Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. Where can people find more about all your stuff, your writing, everything you’ve got going on?

[00:59:28] Shane McLean: Okay. Yeah. So I’m currently. on garage gym reviews and also muscle and fitness. My blog is balanceguytraining. com. I’m all over social media.

[00:59:45] You’ll find me at Shane McLean on Facebook Outback Performances on Instagram. If you’re a rider interested in getting published, I also have a fitness flow writing services also on Facebook. So that’s where people can find

[01:00:01] Dr Mike T Nelson: me. Nice. And if people are looking for editors, do you do any editing work or are you pretty much all booked up at this point?

[01:00:10] Shane McLean: No. Yeah, I still I will still help. Yes. I’ve still got, I’ve still got, I’ve still got time on my schedule. I’m always there to help particularly fitness writers.

[01:00:20] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. That’s awesome. Because I’ve noticed. Just in general, paradoxically, editors now appear to be more in demand than ever before, which, again, goes back to, you have to understand what you’re writing about.

[01:00:33] There’s a skill set in making it sound good, and it’s a much harder skill set to make someone else’s shit sound better and still sound like them. That’s like a whole separate sub skill set that’s extremely useful,

[01:00:46] Shane McLean: yeah, editing’s a great skill. It’s something I’m still working at.

[01:00:51] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, it’s just to me it’s just like writing.

[01:00:53] It’s never ending. It’s just the, especially after working on the Triphasic 2 book with Cal, trying to have it all be one cohesive voice is, it’s a much harder thing than I thought it was going to be, but at the same point it’s also rewarding to see, just like writing this transfer of all this information into the domain, so more people have access to it.

[01:01:15] And

[01:01:16] Shane McLean: if you’re not following Carl on social media or anything, you should. Yeah. That dude is

[01:01:21] Dr Mike T Nelson: amazing. Yeah. Carl Deeds. My buddy Carl said, he’s yeah, he’s like a training savant.

[01:01:28] Shane McLean: I’m like. He’s got skin in the game, right? Yeah. That’s, that is Carl. Carl is the ultimate example of having skin in the game.

[01:01:36] Particularly in his position that, universe is a universe. You mean the strength coach? Yeah.

[01:01:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much for all the time and everything. Highly encourage people to check you out and if they need any of your services to definitely hit you up.

[01:01:51] Thank you so much.

[01:01:52] Shane McLean: Thank you, Mike. Thank you for

[01:01:53] Dr Mike T Nelson: having me on. Yeah, all good. Thank you.

[01:01:57] [01:01:57] [01:01:57] Dr Mike T Nelson: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Really appreciate it. If you enjoyed this podcast and you want the top four action items to be a better writer, according to Shane from muscle and the fitness go to mikekenelson. com forward slash flex for mikekenelson. com forward slash F L E X.

[01:02:19] The number four. And you will be able to get them on that page. Also, check out Element. Go to www. drinkelemente. com forward slash Mike Nelson. That’s my favorite electrolyte drink right now. I’ve been using it for, God, almost daily now for going on well over three years. So check that out. Huge thanks to Shane.

[01:02:42] Make sure to check out all of his wonderful stuff on social media, his website. Everything that he has coming out, always great stuff that he’s putting out through muscle and fitness, which is awesome to see. And if you like this podcast for, to someone you think may enjoy it, leave us a couple stars for review always helps to go a long way to get better distribution of the podcast.

[01:03:04] Thank you so much for listening. Really appreciate it and stay tuned for another episode next week. See ya.

[01:03:12] Personally, I don’t care for puppets much. I don’t find them believable. I don’t believe you!

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