listen on apple podcasts
listen on spotify podcasts
listen on google podcasts
listen on simplecast

In this episode of the Flex Diet Podcast, Jenny the Nutritionist and I tackle the issue of body image identity, discussing strategies to help clients fine-tune their shape and aim for small adjustments over time. We discuss Jenny’s insights into managing stress with nutrition, natural herbs, breathwork, and meditation. Be prepared to walk away from this interaction equipped with invaluable knowledge to help you, and your clients, achieve your health and fitness goals in a balanced, sustainable way.

This podcast is brought to you by the Physiologic Flexibility Certification course. In the course, which opens again on September 18, 2023, II talk about the body’s homeostatic regulators and how you can train them. The benefit is enhanced recovery and greater robustness. We cover breathing techniques, CWI, sauna, HIIT, diet, and more.

Episode Chapters:

  • [7:19] Working Smarter, Not Harder
  • [14:38] Overachievement in Fitness and Business
  • [20:40] Education and Tracking for Health Goals
  • [33:15] Fitness and Body Image Identity
  • [37:19] Variability in Body Fat Percentage Measurement
  • [47:08] Stress, Nutrition, Meditation, and Assessments
  • [59:57] Troubleshooting Plateau and Referral Strategies

Connect with Jenny:

Other relevant podcasts:

Rock on!

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Download the transcriptPDF

Full text below

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Dr. Mike T Nelson

PhD, MSME, CISSN, CSCS Carrick Institute Adjunct Professor Dr. Mike T. Nelson has spent 18 years of his life learning how the human body works, specifically focusing on how to properly condition it to burn fat and become stronger, more flexible, and healthier. He’s has a PhD in Exercise Physiology, a BA in Natural Science, and an MS in Biomechanics. He’s an adjunct professor and a member of the American College of Sports Medicine. He’s been called in to share his techniques with top government agencies. The techniques he’s developed and the results Mike gets for his clients have been featured in international magazines, in scientific publications, and on websites across the globe.

  • PhD in Exercise Physiology
  • BA in Natural Science
  • MS in Biomechanics
  • Adjunct Professor in Human
  • Performance for Carrick Institute for Functional Neurology
  • Adjunct Professor and Member of American College of Sports Medicine
  • Instructor at Broadview University
  • Professional Nutritional
  • Member of the American Society for Nutrition
  • Professional Sports Nutrition
  • Member of the International Society for Sports Nutrition
  • Professional NSCA Member


expert interviews
should you keto?
Flex Diet Webinar replay

[00:00:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things too. Increase muscle strength, performance, improve body composition, all without destroying your health in the process. Today in the program, we’ve got Jenny, the nutritionist, all the way from Bali, and we talk all about different things to work with.

[00:00:27] Especially female clients who are very type A or high stress. Are there other things that we as trainers should be doing different topics such as when doing too much starts to go backwards? What do you do with clients that are high stress or even neurotic? The role of education and action items so that they know what to do next.

[00:00:52] Should you just meditate more? What if somebody can’t meditate? What if the client is doing everything already? What would be some of the next steps there and a whole lot more? This is a very fun conversation on a different subtopic that I think you will enjoy. I also wanted to let you know that the physiologic flexibility certification will open September 18th through September 25th, 2023.

[00:01:21] So if you have clients who are high stress and you’re looking for advanced recovery things to do with them. Everything from cold water immersion to sauna, to zone two, cardio to high intensity training, ketones, lactate, breathing techniques, and much more. All in a cohesive research-based system. Check out the physiologic flexibility certification.

[00:01:46] Again, go to There’ll be a link here in the show notes to get all the information. You can go there, get on the wait list. I’ll have some pretty cool bonuses once it opens. Again, if you’re listening to this program outside of that timeframe, you’ll still go to the same link and it’ll put you on the wait list for the next time that it opens.

[00:02:07] So go to and enjoy this conversation with Jenny the nutritionist.

[00:02:17] [00:02:17] Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome to the podcast, Jenny. How are you?

[00:02:21] Jenny the Nutrionist: Thanks for having me. I am great.

[00:02:24] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yes. And as we mentioned off air, you are back in Bali.

[00:02:28] Jody and I got to meet you and Aaron at a friend’s wedding in Denver, Colorado, which was very cool. And it’s always, I was telling Aaron, I’m like, you ever see someone where you’re like, I think I know that guy or that gal, they look so familiar, but they live in a foreign country like halfway around the world that you’re like, ah nah, you don’t make any connection.

[00:02:51] And so yeah, that was the deal.

[00:02:53] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah. That was a great wedding end. I think we, where we recognized it or real connected was at the bowling alley. We

[00:03:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: were like, oh yeah, it was actually after the wedding. Ironically circle. Yeah. And you had a great idea for a topic today. Do you want, I’ll let you introduce it, which I thought was awesome.

[00:03:10] Yeah.

[00:03:10] Jenny the Nutrionist: So I work with a lot of type A. Ladies who lift. And so my kind of niche and specialty is nutrition solutions for those type of ladies. I feel like it’s not something that maybe is talked about here or there, but there’s no real like space for them to go to. And so I think about them all day long.

[00:03:34] That’s my people. And so when we talked about, okay, what would be a potential topic, I thought that might be a good one.

[00:03:41] Dr Mike T Nelson: Perfect. And are you a current type A or recovering type A person?

[00:03:47] Jenny the Nutrionist: So I like to put a star next to the type A, ’cause I feel like it means a lot of different things to different people.

[00:03:53] And I’ve had people message me and be like, but I’m not type A, can I still work with you? And I really think

[00:04:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: it’s more, no, go away.

[00:04:01] Jenny the Nutrionist: I’ll not talk to you. Yeah, absolutely not. I really think it’s more, I like maybe a soft type A where it’s something where you are maybe organized or you like to be really on top of things and maybe you like to be routined and maybe consider yourself a high achiever all your life, which is a, it’s a great thing, right?

[00:04:24] But then it also comes along with some maybe perfectionism or over overdoing it, or the one that I see a lot is working harder and working harder. And

[00:04:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: so that’s something that the solution to everything.

[00:04:37] Jenny the Nutrionist: So the problem is it’s worked well for us in the past and we think, oh, okay, that, I’ll just outwork whatever it I’ll outwork people or I’ll outwork whatever to get, good grades in college to get a great job, and so on and so forth.

[00:04:52] And so we think it’s like part of our identity or the reason why we have been so successful, but when it comes to nutrition, it can feed us and then we’re like, wait a minute, what do I need to do? So I see that a lot where it’s just constantly, okay, I just need to workout more, workout harder, eat less and just whipping ourselves.

[00:05:16] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I would argue that the always work harder is, it’s one of those weird things where, yeah, you should probably put in the effort. Yes, you’re gonna be rewarded for it, but at least my brain assumed that it was a linear relationship. It’s hard when, you go to school, don’t, I’ve been in college forever.

[00:05:36] I, my solution, everything was just listen to more death metal, like train harder and drink more coffee. Like you don’t need to sleep and this is not going well when you’re, you have to be at the lab at four 30 in the morning. It’s nine o’clock and you’re already taking a 20 minute caffeine power nap in the back of your car.

[00:05:53] And it’s not even noon yet. Yeah, it’s a, I found it was a very weird thing. Where does it work? Yes. Up until a point. And then when it stops working, you just feel completely lost and utterly confused because for the first 20, 30 years of my life or whatever it was working and now it’s not.

[00:06:11] You just feel completely confused

[00:06:13] Jenny the Nutrionist: when you said a power nap in my car, something about a nap in the car, that ring a bell because I used to, oh, I gotta do two days. At one point I remember doing three a days. Thinking, oh, if I, after work, I’ll do CrossFit. Maybe in the morning I’ll get up and run.

[00:06:29] And then if I could just squeeze in at lunchtime, my, at my old corporate job, there was a decent gym there. If I could just squeeze in some arms, then I would have that’s what would get me the arms, right? And so I remember doing that. That obviously didn’t last long or doing two aday, but then I remember at lunchtime going to my car and taking naps because I was just trying to do more and more where I’m like, okay, I can squeeze in a nap here.

[00:06:55] So I definitely know about those 20 minute naps thinking that would save me.

[00:07:01] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I got to the point where I started using the caffeine power nap, where you have anhydrous caffeine in a pill form, and then you consume that, and then you take a nap for 30 minutes. So that way when you wake up, you have peak levels of blood caffeine, and you had a nap at the same time.

[00:07:16] Again not recommended for daily use.

[00:07:19] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yes. But at the time you’re like, this is, I’ve just gotta work more, gotta work more. And so the slogan or the thing that I always go back to is working smarter, not harder. And I feel like a lot of these ladies and these people, they’re smart people, right?

[00:07:33] They’re go-getters. They’re they are smart people, but they have just been on the hamster wheel and the go go. They haven’t stopped and pulled back or zoom out and be like, wait a minute. How could I work smarter instead of harder? And then the second part to that is how do I even know what to do?

[00:07:49] I’m sure, there is a way to work smarter. And I remember getting to that point and stopping and thinking, okay, there’s gotta be a way I see other people are doing it but how? And I didn’t really see anything out there that was going to teach it to me. A high level ’cause I wanted to understand it, but then it’d also be specific to someone like me, a lady who is lifting weights who wants to build muscle and decrease body fat and who doesn’t ascent have, a hundred pounds to lose or who isn’t on a stage competing.

[00:08:23] And I was searching for something and that’s when I was like, okay, I’m not seeing this. I saw people around me like my coach, Brian Stein doing a show and I was like, okay, he is getting the results. I see what he’s doing. I’m just gonna have to do a show to really learn how to work smarter. And little did I know that would change everything for me.

[00:08:49] ’cause I would learn it and understand it, but then realize oh, there’s like an actual strategy to this. And it’s not just work hard hard, hard. There’s ways to fine tune it and be precise and better, better use of my time to get better results. And then that’s what kind of took me down the path of okay, I wanna learn more and really apply this.

[00:09:10] And then my thought was, there, I knew there are millions of ladies out there like me who maybe didn’t want to don’t want to go as far as doing a show, but they still wanna understand this and they’re not getting it. And that’s what kind of led me to creating my programs and going down

[00:09:26] that

[00:09:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: path.

[00:09:27] Awesome. And for those listening they can find the podcast I did with Brian Warstein. We’ll put a link to it down below. Which is funny ’cause I like, I’m like, oh yeah. It always just strikes me as how everything is such a small world. So I talked to Aaron, he had mentioned him and I already had lined him Brian up for the podcast.

[00:09:46] And it so happens my good buddy Andrews Varner, I worked with part-time at Rapid Health. Brian used to be his business partner when they had a gym together. So it’s just this weird, like fitness,

[00:09:57] Jenny the Nutrionist: a very small world, be my coach back in the day.

[00:10:01] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, so you, you were at the gym in person then?

[00:10:04] Yeah. Ah, okay. And that’s where, I’m sorry. Name coached you. I’m kidding. I just love

[00:10:11] Jenny the Nutrionist: Understood all the time. The best part about Anders was his energy. You walking in the door, Andrew was awesome and he was screaming your name from across the gym and you felt so welcomed and you’re like, I love this place.

[00:10:25] And then Brian would get in there with the technical aspects of training where you actually learn and stuff. So yeah, it was a great time. And then that’s where I met Aaron.

[00:10:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, so you met him through Oh, okay. Now it’s all making sense. Yeah.

[00:10:39] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yep.

[00:10:40] Dr Mike T Nelson: Ah, very cool. And so you talked a little bit about where you’re at today and how you got there.

[00:10:47] Was it mostly just out of need? Like you said, you were looking for answers yourself and having a hard time finding them and then realized, hey, maybe other people need help in this area too. Yeah.

[00:11:00] Jenny the Nutrionist: I wouldn’t say it was out of like desperate need. I was never one who took it to the. Extreme, although three, three a days does sound extreme.

[00:11:09] Was, I

[00:11:09] Dr Mike T Nelson: was gonna say, you were just talking about wanna do three a day, so I dunno about that.

[00:11:13] Jenny the Nutrionist: That was I guess maybe the workout aspect. I definitely was the person at the gym. It’s you wanna stay after and do abs, you wanna stay after and work on this. And ’cause one I just loved it.

[00:11:22] I enjoy working out. I’ve always enjoyed being an athlete and working out. But I, the nutrition side, I never took to the extreme because, my FitnessPal would tell me to eat 1200 calories. I could do that for three days

[00:11:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: for most. All women have to eat 1200 calories.

[00:11:37] That’s right. Exactly right.

[00:11:38] Jenny the Nutrionist: You got it. I would do that for three days and then being like, I’m starving. I can’t do this. I know this can’t be the way. And then I would go back to, eating more. But, so I was stuck being like, okay, wait a minute. I work out, why don’t I look like I work out doing 1200 calories versus an option?

[00:11:57] So I felt like I was in this. Vicious cycle for a while of maybe, oh, maybe I’m gonna try this or maybe I’m gonna try that. And then got to the point of just frustration. That’s really what it came down to. It being like, listen, I know I’m capable of this. I know that what I’m currently doing isn’t getting me there and I know there’s something I’m not, that I’m, that I don’t know about.

[00:12:20] And so that’s what kind of led me to searching and then being like, okay, you know what? I’m gonna do a bikini show. I’m gonna learn it. I want this experience anyway. And that really opened the doors for me to understand it more. And then, do you know Jen Ryan?

[00:12:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: It sounds really familiar, but I can’t place her right now.

[00:12:38] So

[00:12:38] Jenny the Nutrionist: she was also at the gym and now she is at Invictus. And a she’s been to the games many times. She’s qualified as a master. Oh,

[00:12:47] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Okay, gotcha. Yeah,

[00:12:48] Jenny the Nutrionist: so she was a nutrition coach at the time and when I was doing bikini shows, and so she knew I was into nutrition and learning it and all of that.

[00:12:58] And, but she also knew that I had a business background and she needed help and she’s can you please just help me, once a week let’s meet. And so at first, excuse me, I came in on the kind of the business side and helping her on that aspect, but then I saw how she was working with clients and I was learning at the same time, more and more on the nutrition side and seeing the results and the impact.

[00:13:24] And it was like, okay, I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta learn more. And I did the licensing that she did to just have a better. A deeper dive a better understanding on the science front too. And between that experience, I was like, oh I know people are out there. I know people need this. And I really enjoy like helping her out with clients.

[00:13:46] And then started to go on my own and do that on my own. And then it just started off as okay, this is something that I can also do. And then it turned into, no, there is like this is what I wanna do. And then slowly made that Traci transition there.

[00:14:02] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah.

[00:14:03] Jen’s, that’s super nice, crazy person who has a full-time business, coaches, like highly ranked CrossFit athlete and yeah, super, super nice person to boot also.

[00:14:14] Jenny the Nutrionist: Oh yeah, she is. She’s the absolute best. We still talk with her probably once a quarter we’ll hop on. Oh, nice. Zoom and just stay in touch. Yeah.

[00:14:23] Dr Mike T Nelson: Nice. And so for people listening, one how. Is there any test or anything that they could self quantify as a type A person and then we’ll get into what are some things that might be different that they should work on or watch out for?

[00:14:38] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yes, definitely. I would describe them as someone who would maybe have classified themselves as an overachiever in the past they would be the person who would put in the extra work or go the extra mile to get the extra, whatever result it is.

[00:14:57] They’ve maybe been a athlete in the past going along with that overachiever. They’ve maybe tried to fill up their calendar and oh, I’ve got 15 minutes here. I can achieve this or get this done. They maybe have known themselves to, okay, I’m gonna work out more and more. Like we just talked about.

[00:15:19] I’ve got a whole list here. I also think. They are they’re very career driven which aligns with everything we’re talking about too. But also they may not realize that they are more stressed out, but they just think it’s normal. If you compared your life to somebody else and you’re thinking like, oh, I get so much more done, or, oh I do so much more then and you think, oh, I can just handle it, or it’s just part of my norm.

[00:15:50] I would also question that and step back and see, oh, maybe I’m just operating with higher stress levels, which I think is something else that we can talk about as part of the maybe issue that they’re unaware of too. So I would say tho that’s describes the person, oh, another good thing might be, they might be like tracking their macros down to the gram.

[00:16:10] And get a little, you

[00:16:11] Dr Mike T Nelson: mean they’re weighing their broccoli and a few little crumbs at the scale and they gotta restart again. And they, that’s actually, I had a client once who she was mad and upset it was a female client because she couldn’t figure out how to weigh the PAM spray that you spray the pan with.

[00:16:30] And she said it was zero calories, but she didn’t believe it. But she had a hard time picking it up on her scale. And she was very upset by this. Yes.

[00:16:38] Jenny the Nutrionist: Exactly. Exactly. That’s a real good one. I would say the other thing is they care a lot about their health and they care a lot about how they.

[00:16:54] Represent themselves in the world. They want to look the part, be the part, but be healthy and feel like all areas are taken care of. All areas have, like the box has been checked in all areas. So I would say that’s typical in, in, in terms of the fitness side. You may also be like a check the box person where it’s like, Ooh, I love creating lists so I can check it off.

[00:17:19] That might be something else that you tend to do. But again, I think it it’s like a soft type A where it’s not the point where you feel like o c D about anything, but something that you get a lot of satisfaction being really on top of everything.

[00:17:36] Dr Mike T Nelson: Got it. Yeah. I definitely have more of those clients in the past.

[00:17:40] I’ve got a few now. One in particular, he is fascinated, I won’t say his name. People can probably figure out who he is, but. Super type a very, extremely personable but also has an extremely high level of self-awareness. So it’s fascinating to talk to him because he is done enough work to know that he is neurotic and he really understands how neurotic he actually is, neuro which actually makes it fun.

[00:18:13] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah, I do see a lot of my ladies are also really social, right? They’re Yes. Social. Then going back to that, I want it all right. Yeah. I want it all. I’m gonna do this perfectly, but then I also want the great family, and then I also want to go on, dinner dates and go out with friends and be social.

[00:18:32] So it’s like they, they want it all right? That’s and they think, I just need to work harder

[00:18:38] Dr Mike T Nelson: to get it. How do you get ’em away from the mindset of if you just work. Harder, everything will work better. I know for myself, like I, the biggest thing I realized in training was doing more actually aerobic stuff, primarily on the rower or just other things.

[00:19:00] I went back and looked at my training logs and realized that like better is just better. Like more is not necessarily always better, more can be better. But I think after you’ve been training for a while too you’ll reach this point in a session where it just feels like I could do work, but it doesn’t feel like it was like the quality of the beginning of the session.

[00:19:22] And at least for me, that’s okay, it’s just time to cut it off. Like you may miss a few reps, like speed feels a little bit slower. Everything starts to feel eh. And in the past I was just like no, just suck it up your pussy, you just gotta work harder. Like train through that. And all I got doing that back in the day was just, All sorts of crazy ass injuries.

[00:19:44] Like I was injured like all the time and that would, just kill any progress that you made. I remember once having a conversation with a guy and I looked at him and I asked him, I said, Hey, given my history doing everything that I’m doing what would you have me do if you were my coach?

[00:20:01] He is one fire your current coach. Two do the opposite of everything you’re doing now. ’cause all you’re doing is just breaking yourself. And I’m like, and now at first you’re like, oh, how dare you say that? Oh, how evil person? And you’re like, oh shit. He is right. Yeah. But unfortunately I had a, it was a repetitive error system for about six years before I finally realized that Oh yeah.

[00:20:23] It even wasn’t necessarily my coach’s fault. I was the one who was willing to do it. Like I was the one that was, completely at fault. Yeah.

[00:20:30] Jenny the Nutrionist: And that’s hard too, when you. You’re like no, I just wanted you to tell me to do this one exercise. I

[00:20:35] Dr Mike T Nelson: thought you had the magical solution.

[00:20:37] Yes. This new exercise or this new program, or,

[00:20:40] Jenny the Nutrionist: I have to change every single thing I’m doing in my entire approach and thought process of how it works. It breaks your brain. Yeah. I think education and then key metric tracking are the two biggest things that shift that approach for my ladies.

[00:20:58] ’cause they’re just not, they’re just unaware of how it works. For example, if they go to a baby shower or go out to eat, they feel out of control. And that’s something that is very important to those type of ladies is feeling in control. So they feel out of control, not because they’re like, oh, I just binge and eat everything.

[00:21:18] But because they’re like, I don’t know what’s in this. I don’t know. Like my typical experience when I do this is then I feel. Floated or inflamed or the scale goes up the next day. So that obviously means I’m gaining body fat and I don’t know what’s in this. And so it, I just feel off. And so they feel like this, like life stuff.

[00:21:39] It makes me feel off and it feels out of control and doesn’t get the result that I want. But really they just don’t understand how to, oh, I actually, my goals right now, I need to eat more food. I need to eat X amount, and this is what’s in this food here that I can guesstimate when going out to eat.

[00:21:58] And I can pair that so I can still en enjoy this, but feel really directional because I understand it. And so I think that education is the biggest gap. I feel like most people, but I like to say like my ladies who are in this kind of category are just not empowered to make decisions to, to feel in control or the person who’s measuring, their.

[00:22:21] Pam spray they just don’t understand of what actually is moving the needle or not. And so a lot of education at a high level because they’re also not at a point where they wanna become an expert in this, but an and education where they can make sense of it and then apply it and then see the results from it.

[00:22:42] They’re like, oh, actually, I have ladies be like, oh, I wasn’t feeling well and I didn’t go do that workout. And this was the first time that I didn’t feel bad about that because I actually understand how it works and how that actually might be better for me. And I’d actually just started a new group.

[00:22:58] And so I’m seeing this happen real time where they’re, commenting and saying, are you sure that I’m not gonna gain body fat by eating more? Are like, it just feels like a lot of food. I’m really nervous. Can you just, are you sure? And then instead of just saying, yeah, trust me, I’ll go through and explain to me, look here’s how it works, here’s why.

[00:23:18] And we gotta do this again and again. Like we just went over this on the call and there, then there’s a booklet with the materials in it, right? But you gotta go over it again and again. ’cause we’re essentially rewiring, 20 years of habits and understanding. And so I think education, going over it again and again.

[00:23:32] And then actually seeing the data, because then at the end of the week or end of the month we can look and say, all right, let’s pull up your, I call ’em dashboards. We can see you’ve increased, a hundred, 150 calories every couple of weeks and we can see your photos, they have improved. We can see your weight has, maybe stayed the same.

[00:23:55] We can see your strength numbers have increased. And so through them understanding why, and then actually experiencing and seeing the data for themselves, that’s what I see. Slowly changes and shifts their approach and understanding. And then by the end, they’re like hooked and they’re like, what? I don’t have to do my strength training and then also a full Peloton class every single day and I get five hours of my life back every week.

[00:24:21] So I think the combination of probably the experience it too. So education, the data, and then experiencing it is how I slowly get them to

[00:24:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: turn. Yeah, no I think that’s great. And that’s similar to what I do with clients too, of, I remember several years ago I had a female client. She was actually a Com fitness competitor, so fitness, I don’t know, I call, yeah, it was fitness wasn’t physique.

[00:24:45] And she was, eh, like four weeks out from her show, everything was going great. She was wonderful. And her body weight or on the scale had gone up a couple pounds. She was just completely stressed outta her mind, HRVs completely in the toilet. I’m like, how about like for dinner tonight, you have 50 extra grams of carbohydrates.

[00:25:04] Have some white rice, have some fruit, whatever. She’s what? You’re crazy. What? I can’t have 50 extra grams of carbohydrates. That’s insane. And I’m like, okay, so let’s do simple math. Let’s say a hundred percent of this gets converted into fat, right? Here’s the amount of fat. And I, walked her through the calculation.

[00:25:23] It’s basically minuscule. Now, again, if you did this for every single meal for the rest of your life, of course it’s gonna accumulate, but one single meal at night, trust me, you’re gonna be fine. And she’s oh, I understand the math that it makes sense, but I don’t know about this. I’m like, just try it.

[00:25:39] It’s one meal, right? She gets on the scale the next day. She’s I lost two and a half pounds. And obviously it’s not all fat, it was probably just, water inflammation. Who knows? She’s stressed out of her mind. And then after that point, she is oh. It was like a, they were like proving something that they thought was right is wrong, but then once it actually happens to them, they’re like, oh, okay.

[00:26:04] Because it’s one thing, like you were saying, to do the education, but also to have the experience of it, I think is the thing that kind of seals it. And the other story reminds me of, I think I’ve probably told this before in the podcast is Kline years ago we went down to a fitness retreat.

[00:26:19] My buddy Dr. Ben House’s place years ago. And so I had worked with her, gradually bringing her calories up, getting her to lift more. She’s very, anxious kind of type a person. And she was on board and she actually did really good. But we got there, it was like day four. She’s oh, do you know, this is so crazy that I’m down here and all these women they look so good and they lift lots of heavy weights and oh my God, the amount of food they eat is crazy.

[00:26:47] And I’m like, Yes, this is what we’ve been telling you the whole time, but it’s hard until you have that experience where you change your environment for people to then believe in it and actually see it. It’s like they logically understand the math, they logically understand what you’re telling them. But it’s almost like this, like what belief until you experience it thing and then it sticks.

[00:27:09] Yeah,

[00:27:09] Jenny the Nutrionist: and I love that you did a worst case scenario too. Oh yeah. I feel like that’s really important. I’ve done something similar to be like, okay, but even if you did Yep. Need 0.1 pound we’re tracking everything. So we would adjust, within the week or two and everything would be fine.

[00:27:28] Yeah. I love that you, you answer because in, in their bodies they’re like, okay, but what about this? What if? It happens. And it’s like answering all of that for them so they internally can calm down. Yeah. And

[00:27:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: some of ’em, I’ve told them, I’m like, okay.

[00:27:42] I will no longer answer any what if questions. Like we will do an experiment to see if what if this, or that happens. And like you said, I’m ologist if something weird happens. But it almost felt like it was sort of their security blanket of if they could figure out all the hypothe hypothetical things that could happen, then they could magically navigate through it.

[00:28:05] It’s ah, you’re just gonna drive yourself insane. Yeah.

[00:28:09] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yes,

[00:28:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: definitely. I dunno if you run into something similar where people are lobbying a lot of hypothetical questions and the longer, at least I learned this, the longer I entertained them, the more just crazy they started getting,

[00:28:23] Jenny the Nutrionist: I started pushing back and being like, If you’re gonna an ask a question, Please ask a question, yes.

[00:28:29] And I’m gonna answer it, but I first want you to answer it because that is how, yeah, I’ve done that too. We’re, yeah we’re educating. So the whole goal is for you to be empowered. So just give it your best shot and then I’ll correct you. And I would say 90% of the time they get it right and they know, but they just don’t feel confident in it.

[00:28:47] And so I try to make, get them confident through that approach and that it takes a lot of effort on that end. We’ll see if that holds up, when I have kids and stuff. ’cause it takes a lot more effort and patience. But I have found that to be somewhat helpful because it stops them.

[00:29:05] ’cause they’re like, okay, wait a minute. I see now how it actually works. I see now that, my brain’s just going and it’s gonna brain so we can reel it in and just stick to the plan. Yeah. And

[00:29:17] Dr Mike T Nelson: that’s like the art of coaching, right? I mean it’s you’re obviously educating people along the way.

[00:29:22] You’re not just be like, oh, weigh your broccoli, hit your macros, see ya. It’s it just doesn’t work that way. And a handful of people I’ve in the past where I gave ’em an exact meal plan or exact macros, and I do use macros with most of my clients who are more intermediate to advanced. If they started hitting everything like a hundred percent for the first two weeks, I actually got super nervous.

[00:29:45] ’cause I’m like, uhoh, the wheels are gonna come off. There’s gonna be a social event. Something is coming, it’s gonna happen and it’s gonna be a disaster.

[00:29:55] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yes, I definitely, I notice that exact same pattern because I have my ladies trek macros too, and Sure. And and the exact same thing, right? I see them hit seven outta seven days the first couple of weeks.

[00:30:10] And especially, The way that, we approach it in the program. The first part is we’re building up because 99% of them aren’t eating enough and they have more flexibility. And it’s what I call like the lifestyle phase where okay, you’re learning how to, go out to eat once or twice a week.

[00:30:26] You’re learning how to take vacations and guesstimate your macros. And all of that aspect, you don’t have to be perfect for you. Like you are your, you’re average. And when I see them seven days outta the week, seven days outta the week, I hitting it, and I’m I that exact same thing.

[00:30:41] I’m like do we need to coach on something? ’cause I feel like there’s something there where you feel like you can’t be a little loose, which don’t get me wrong, there’s a time and place where that’s a great skill to have, especially in the deficit phase. But again, you’re in this program for a reason and there was a whole lot of time in life outside of that.

[00:31:06] Two to three month def deficit timeframe.

[00:31:09] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. What do you do at that point? I actually, if I can, I actually get ’em to not log a meal, which paradoxically you would think they’d be like, oh, thank God. They’re like, they just get really scared, and I’m like, you know what you’re already eating.

[00:31:24] You’re probably gonna be fine. It’s can I inject some more variability before life gives you too much variability?

[00:31:31] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. That’s a really good way to frame it. And yeah, I do the same thing and sometimes my just are what, not not log this meal, or I may say, okay, log it, but I want you to guesstimate first.

[00:31:45] Yeah, just guesstimate first, and then you can log it or weigh it and get the skill. To be able to feel confident in your guesstimating, so that way you can slowly remove or be so reliant on that tool. So I’m like, I, food scale’s great tool and it’s gonna come in handy at different times, but I want you to be able to use your brain first and then use the tool of the food scale.

[00:32:12] So like slowly removing different steps and then maybe after that they’re feeling more comfortable. It’s okay, let’s not track for a day. Let’s, I’ve had ladies like, okay, let’s not track for just one meal and then let me know what comes up. What are you thinking? How are you feeling during that?

[00:32:29] And then let’s bring that to the coaching call and let’s talk about that. And it could be either they are, oh, but I’m off. I know that I’m not perfect. I’m probably off by at least 10 grams on this rice. Okay, let’s actually let’s talk about that. What does that actually mean?

[00:32:45] Let’s say you are off 10 grams on the rice. Let’s get into the math and the science of what that would actually mean. And then we go through it and break it down and then they realize, oh, that actually wouldn’t change anything. That’s not going to make or break me, especially during this, this building phase that I’m in.

[00:33:02] I actually don’t have to do that. And it like just breaks down all of their concerns and their theories to a point where they’re like, okay, I’m making steps forward where I don’t have to be so precise.

[00:33:15] Dr Mike T Nelson: No, I love that. And do you feel like at the end of it, if you keep digging through all of that stuff, one thing I’ve noticed is some people are their I identity is literally what they’re doing, especially competitors, right?

[00:33:33] So their identity as I am a fitness competitor for the competitor, powerlifter whatever. And they get tied into body composition and performance as a marker for who they are instead of someone who is a person and chooses to do these other things. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah,

[00:33:56] Jenny the Nutrionist: that definitely makes sense.

[00:33:57] And I definitely, personally, I’ve experienced that before where I had a lot of gut issues, hormonal issues, and so the I had to stop working out for a while. I was more focused on health than performance or my physique. And there was, and it’s also my job, right? So yeah, it’s what I do all the time.

[00:34:19] My Aaron, my boyfriend, we’re both like, it’s what we talk about a lot. And so that was kinda taken away from me, it felt and I was okay, who am I if I don’t have this? Which I had to. Feel like, what else do I like? Maybe I like reading books. Maybe I like, and just started trying different things to be like, okay, I separating that part of me.

[00:34:44] So that’s just a personal story and so I definitely think there’s a part of that. But I do think my people aren’t necessarily competitors. They do have, they have careers, maybe families and, they like going hiking or biking or I have a girl who plays recreational volleyball or I just talked with someone who’s oh, I really wanna do a, a 50 miler at some point.

[00:35:06] So they have, other things too going on. But the biggest thing that I see with them is they identify as like the fit friend. In their friend group or in their family, and they’re like, but I don’t look like I’m the fit friend. And so it’s embarrassing that I, this is my interest. I spend a lot of time doing this, I prioritize it.

[00:35:27] But then we show up on the beach vacation and I don’t have the physique that represents it. And so that’s really frustrating for them and really kinda like disappointing ’cause they’re like what am I missing?

[00:35:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: Do you find some of that is their end goal is just skewed And I think this is unfortunately happening more to females.

[00:35:51] It definitely happens to guys too. If you look at, media magazine covers I worked with a top fitness competitor years ago and she was, on the cover of one of the fitness magazines and inside they posted her weight as 127 pounds. She was, very lean, very muscular, but she was like 5 9, 5 10.

[00:36:13] She was pretty tall, had a lot of muscle. And I looked at this and I, because I knew her actual weight and I said, no offense, like how did this happen? She is oh yeah, I gave them my actual weight was 1 57 and they just flat out lied and put 1 27 on there. I was like, oh my God. Because you, you think about all these poor women who then see that they see her and they see a way that’s not even a real way to begin with.

[00:36:38] Much less things can be photoshopped and everything else on, on top of it. So I’ve told women, I’m like, go look at like performance sports for actual weigh-ins where the weigh-in has to be documented and then you can get some idea of what a realistic weight is. Now granted these are, still elite level freaks, but at least you know the weight is actually real.

[00:36:58] ’cause I never entered my brain that, oh my god, maybe some of the magazines just flat out lie on top of it.

[00:37:04] Jenny the Nutrionist: I did not know that either.

[00:37:06] Dr Mike T Nelson: That is, yeah, crazy. It was back many years ago. Hopefully it’s better now and most of the magazines are outta business anyway, but yeah.

[00:37:12] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah, I do think there, like the overall industry’s getting slightly better.

[00:37:18] Yes, I would agree with that. But that wouldn’t surprise me, especially with all the Photoshopping and everything that, so kinda two things on in addition to that. So the first is, I have my ladies optional, but to get a DEXA scan again, instead of oh, I’m gonna avoid the number on the scales.

[00:37:36] It’s no, let’s actually just understand it and say, okay, how much lean muscle mass, how much body fat? And then look at averages for different percentages. And so that way I can say, oh, okay, this is, 20% body fat. I actually need a. Body fat. So let’s, let’s talk about that and learn about that.

[00:37:56] I actually need body fat and my goals would be like 20% body fat. Oh, that’s actually only a seven pound body fat difference. Oh, now I can quantify it and make sense of it and actually see what that looks like, versus just seeing models or Instagram models of oh, I, I want to look like that.

[00:38:14] The other thing too is understanding that posing lighting and day of makes such a huge difference that you could adjust. And I actually just posted this, I do weekly progress photos just for myself and Aaron takes him of course, and he had a slightly different angle in the camera and it really helped me out as far as making me look better.

[00:38:38] And so I just showed them the the difference, and caught out okay, camera angles matter. This is like details, right? Especially. If you’re the type of ladies I work with you’re fine tuning the shape. You don’t have, more than 40 pounds to lose. These are gonna be small adjustments over time.

[00:38:56] So realizing the lighting is gonna change, your posing is gonna change everything. And so part of me is okay, understand it, but then also use it to your advantage. And so I have a opposing class in my course actually, because everything I learned from being on stage applies to just general taking.

[00:39:15] You get your photo taken of family photos with everyone, Facebook and Instagram, a group photo. You’re gonna get your photo taken all the time. And so first look and feel good, just, without all that. But then the cherry on top is learn how to position your body so that way it is more flattering.

[00:39:32] So you, you can show off the work that you’ve put in. So going back to understanding it too.

[00:39:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: No, I like that. And for reference too, I mean I would say 20% body fat for a woman on DEXA is it’s pretty damn lean. ’cause a lot of times they look at the number and they’re like, oh my god, 20% that seems so high.

[00:39:52] It’s no, that’s for women. I would say that’s pretty lean. And as you probably have seen too, most everyone who gets a DEXA realizes they have more fat than what they actually realize too. And that’s not bad or good or bad, it’s just, but I like having an actual standardized measurement that’s looking at body composition, not just, scale weight, which can be goofy at times.

[00:40:15] Yeah,

[00:40:16] Jenny the Nutrionist: a hundred percent. And I feel like too, the DEXA actually I didn’t realize exactly how it was calculated and I kept noticing that some ladies would make great progress. Then the DEXA scan wouldn’t represent that. And I’m like, what is going on? And so it’s so funny how just those numbers could skew people’s mindset because, the week before I would, they would feel so great about everything and really proud of themselves.

[00:40:48] And then they get that number, which now I know why. And then they’re like, oh my gosh, I’m so disappointed. Maybe I didn’t make as much progress as I thought. I, and then in their mind, they start seeing themselves as looking different than they did the day before. But I realized that you’ve gotta be, you can’t be in deficit right when you get the dxi done, which I cannot wait for there to be a, just a, the most accurate measuring thing ever.

[00:41:14] But until then I’ll take what I can get.

[00:41:17] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Explain a little bit more about that for people who are not familiar. Yeah.

[00:41:21] Jenny the Nutrionist: So the dexascan is I think one of the most accurate tools we have. Right now that’s going to measure lean muscle mass by region and body fat by region, which is fantastic.

[00:41:34] However, it’s going to shift and change based on your consumption, especially carbs, because carbs are also gonna store water, and so it doesn’t d and also muscle glycogen. So it’s gonna get it’s gonna store that as well, which is gonna show up on your DEXA scan as lean body mass because the tool, and you can correct me if you’re wrong if I’m wrong, but because the tool doesn’t have the capability to decipher between lean body mass in, in your muscle versus water in your muscle versus muscle glycogen.

[00:42:08] So if your stores are full, meaning if you’re eating more and there’s more water and there’s more muscle glycogen in your muscle, the Dex is gonna count that as lean muscle mass. The problem is then that number is what determines your body fat percentage. So they’ll just take your total weight minus that I put in quotes, lean muscle mass, and then your body fat.

[00:42:30] So if you are in a deficit and you’re eating less, then and you remove that food, you’re gonna remove, let’s say I’ve seen maybe, three pounds of lean muscle mass, even though it’s not truly lean muscle mass. So then that’s gonna make your, it’s you take your total weight minus that number, it’s gonna make your body fat higher, and therefore your body percent body fat, percent higher.

[00:42:54] So I was noticing this with my ladies who actually were eating enough beforehand and then we go into the deficit and it would be less food than they were prior. And so it would happen. Just every once in a while because most of my ladies weren’t eating enough, right? So they would might, they might be in the deficit at the same amount of food as they came to me.

[00:43:14] And so we had apples to apples and so their report would show their progress. But it was just a few of my ladies who were eating enough. And I noticed it was always with the ladies who were like a little bit more advanced. ’cause they already knew to eat enough. And so I was like, what is going on here?

[00:43:30] And then actually Aaron and I got, it’s the only time we bicker or fight. It’s about when it comes to the science or data. And I was like, there is no way. That is how they track it like data or dexascan does the formula. And I was really angry and really mad because I just thought it was more accurate than that.

[00:43:50] And that’s on me to not do my do dilly. But now we know. So does that, anything else that I missed or you wanna add?

[00:43:57] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, no that, that’s great. And DEXA is probably the most accurate out of the commercially available stuff we have. No one’s gonna get shoved in an M R I per se.

[00:44:06] Even then, like what I tell people is body fat percentage across DEXA I’ve seen can vary by one or 2%. Extremely easy. And by that I mean if you were, let’s say a legit 20% on dexa, even if you control for nutrition the day before you might even have a different operator. You might even have a different machine.

[00:44:30] You might have different time of day. Like you, you try to control for all those things. But even then, just the variance in the machine itself, you could be 21, 20 2%, or you could be 18%. And in terms of research stuff, yeah, there’s ways we can try to crosscheck that total body water, what compartment model you’re using, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:44:51] I always try to phrase it in those terms because that’s what the person is interpreting, right? Because I’ve seen people get DEXAs, relatively short order and literally just lose their mind because they’re like, oh my God, I was 21% and I did all this work and I’m at 22.5%. I got fatter. And I’m like your scale weight doesn’t show that.

[00:45:11] Your circumference doesn’t show that your performance is up. You’re still, within the air of AA probably didn’t control your food also the day before. There’s all these variables that go into it, because I think people assume that this is like a scientifically valid, exact machine. I’m, it’s gotta be, and so the amount of people I’ve talked off the ledge of just realizing that, hey, I might be, a little bit off. I’ve had a couple of them go back and get a DEXA again within three days later from a. Yeah, a different place. Yeah. And for people listening, like Grant Tinsley, he’s got a lot of really good research that’s done looking at DEXAs and body comp and stuff like that.

[00:45:47] So even with highly sophisticated medical grade equipment, you’re still left with what’s the scale? Say, what do your pictures look like? What’s your circumference? How do your clothes fit? A lot of these, other indicators that can be extremely useful along the way. Yeah.

[00:46:02] Jenny the Nutrionist: It goes back to not just putting all your eggs in one basket with one key metric.

[00:46:06] It’s look at the full story. What does it all tell us? And how do all of those, work together to represent what’s actually going on?

[00:46:14] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. How do you handle, as you get close to Dan end, how do you handle stress? Do you monitor H R V? Do you do any monitoring of it? Do you have people do breathing techniques or try to reduce their stress?

[00:46:27] Or how do you work with that? So

[00:46:29] Jenny the Nutrionist: first I would love for there to be a. A me, like a measurable daily metric that’s like very precise. Again, I cannot wait until everything is very precise in tracking. But up until that happens, I have my ladies get blood work done and so I’m initially gonna look at cortisol levels and then reverse T three is the main one.

[00:46:55] But of course there’s a lot more that trickle down that would be impacted from stress.

[00:46:59] Dr Mike T Nelson: Stress too. Explain reverse T three real quickly for people that may be a new term because they’ve probably heard of T three in terms of active thyroid, but reverse T three what the hell is that?

[00:47:08] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah, so again, I’m gonna sum it up in, in high level.

[00:47:12] So essentially yeah, perfect. Your thyroid rate is, there’s, We’ll call it four components. You have your t s H, which is like the starter and the controller of things. Then it’s gonna tell us how much T four to make. And then T four is then either gonna create, turn into the active component they call it T three.

[00:47:35] Or if your body is signaling, Hey, we need to slow this person down, then it may turn into reverse T three, which is obviously the opposite of T three. And it’s a way to reduce the active component to that way. It slows down kind of the body and so it’s a signal. So it as t reverse T three increases and once it gets past really like fif 15, I’m just thinking of this score some for a lot of you guess it’s not gonna matter.

[00:48:05] Once it gets past a certain amount, it’s telling me, Hey, this has been happening for a while. Your body is really trying to put on the brakes. There’s stress going on, additional stress that we wanna bring down. And so one of the things that I typically see is my ladies aren’t eating enough, going back to the the type A go-getter where they’re like, oh, eat less, right?

[00:48:27] I’m gonna try to eat less. Or they’re like, I’m just so busy I’m doing that. I skipped a meal, I forgot. And they’re not eating enough, which is a stressor on your body when you’re not eating enough. So that’s typically one of the biggest things I see. And so that’s also why one of the first steps is to slowly get them eating enough.

[00:48:44] So that’s one part of it. The other part of it is, depending on what their labs look like, we may want to add in additional support. I really Cortis. I don’t know if you’re familiar with new ethics. It’s essentially just natural herbs to help influence cortisol, especially at night, to help them sleep more and.

[00:49:05] Kinda adjust their circadian rhythm to be more on par for what we’d want to see. But I think kind of use supplements as like the last thing. And then the other thing would be breath work and meditation. And a lot of times my ladies are very like, okay I can’t meditate. I just sit there and it, my brain just ping pongs and I wanna go.

[00:49:28] Which I totally get. And so I combine the deep breathing with the meditation and just start with five minutes. There’s five minute meditation on Spotify has been like a lifesaver for me because it’s doable, right? If you tell someone five minutes, you’re like, oh, I can do that for five minutes. And it’s guided.

[00:49:47] So it’s something that they can start and stop and they get taken on a journey. But at the same time, I say practice on your deep breathing. So I want you to slow breath in for four. Kind of the four by four where you go in for four, hold for four, release for four, hold for four, and do that throughout the entire meditation.

[00:50:10] So that way they are coming their mind, but also tapping into it and not just sitting there for five minutes. And so I, I’ll have them do that depending on what I’m seeing with them in their labs in the morning and at night. So they start their day that way and end their night that way.

[00:50:27] And for me I do it every night to help me fall asleep too, and kind of transition into like nighttime. And so those are the main things that I would recommend off the bat. And then of course, it’s funny though because I can see this before I even get the labs back, even based on how someone’s submitting their initial form of telling me about them and collecting all of the data.

[00:50:55] Just the tone or things that they say, or words that they use. It’s funny how much you can tell based on that, what issues would, might come up and show up in their labs. Do you ever see that too?

[00:51:09] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh yeah. Yeah. I have I ask, I’ll tell everyone. So now my little assessment’s not gonna work as well, but I have a certain part of my assessment online.

[00:51:18] I have very specific details and I tell them to watch this video and it’s an assessment. And then I want them to repeat what’s shown in the video on a video for me. So I can see it’s a movement assessment and yeah, do I use it? Of course I do, but I primarily use it to measure like how neurotic and how perfectionistic they actually are.

[00:51:37] Because if someone doesn’t have the right alignments at all, like they just went through it way too fast, all their movements are off to, again, my buddy who is, very high performing on the neurotic side. He did three different videos because he found something that was off a little bit in the video that I had him watch.

[00:51:56] Wasn’t sure exactly what the right outcome was. So he did three separate videos to make sure I would have the exact specific video. So good. So I gotta use that as like my rough gauge of okay, where are these people at? Are they really a detailed person or not? ’cause obviously your interactions and what you’re gonna do with them are gonna be completely different then too.

[00:52:17] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah. And even in, if I would do a consult with someone, how much they were moving and how, yeah, speaking definitely shows up throughout the entire program. You just learn so much about people in ways just by watching and observing them.

[00:52:33] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Especially I’ve put some open-ended questions and stuff and just to see what they say.

[00:52:38] And one of the things I scanned for in applications, again, I’m giving away all my secrets here, but is not necessarily what they wrote, but how much did they write and how did they write it? If they just put one thing of what’s your number one goal? Loose fat? Nah, I don’t know. You didn’t tell me.

[00:52:54] That’s much of a problem. If you go several paragraphs about how you wanna accomplish this one goal and what you’ve done so far to do it and here’s this obstacle and your right shoulder hates you and your nutrition’s a mess or whatever. Okay, cool. That’s something we can work with, right?

[00:53:08] You’re very specific. You know the direction you’re going, you’re just kinda lost as to how to get there. I think sometimes people want to get leaner or add more muscle and then they realize what they need to do it and they’re like, ah, I’m out. Which again, totally fine. You, everyone has to make their own decisions versus someone who knows what they need to go and they just have tried stuff and they’re trying really hard, but it just, not really going so well for them.

[00:53:32] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s one reason too where I’ve narrowed down it and niched down to only working with lifting ladies and yes. It’s almost like people, they’re in the world then, right? And they’re maybe on the cusp of the world where they’re like, okay, I know this is possible for me. I love it.

[00:53:52] This is like something I’m already lifting. It’s already part of my routine. I’m familiar. Maybe I dabbled with macros. That’s a totally different person. That’s some who, someone’s oh, I need to lose a bunch of weight. I wanna get shredded for my wedding. And so it’s helped me just kinda specialize in a certain person.

[00:54:09] And that’s why when we talk about all these specific things of the, type a professional lady who lifts weights, it just, I have a lot of examples because then I can think about that specific person all of the time.

[00:54:23] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I, as a business owner, very. Yeah, if I work with someone, like they have to have some basics down.

[00:54:32] They already have to be lifting, they have to be doing some stuff already in terms of the range. Like they don’t need to be an elite level athlete or anything either, but you have to have some semblance of where you wanna start. ’cause I also realize I’m pretty good at problem solving fitness stuff from a wide background, but I’m a really horrible cheerleader to be honest.

[00:54:53] If if you want someone to be like, yeah, you can do it like every day, like that’s totally not me. But if you know that ahead of time, you can pick people that you’re gonna work with, right? So if people have an issue, but they’re already doing the lifting, they got, the motivation down, they’re already getting to the gym, which is completely different from, general population who is just trying to get to the gym for the first time.

[00:55:14] I think knowing who you can serve best is actually helpful for both parties involved. Yeah,

[00:55:21] Jenny the Nutrionist: totally agree. And I am probably the opposite of you w which, and in almost like a, so it’s something I’m working on. I definitely am a cheerleader. I was a cheerleader my whole life, so it’s oh, nice.

[00:55:33] It’s like in my blood. And, but it’s something that, I’ve got work myself up to when I’m on these coaching calls to, to be a little more stern and be like, Hey, facts are facts, right? Science is science. And a lot of times I’ll to help me do this and articulate it without what, to me feels like, oh, I’m being mean, right?

[00:55:57] Which is not the case. It’s just saying, okay your emotions and your experience is totally valid. Let’s just pull that apart and let’s just set this right here. We’re gonna come back to this because this is definitely valid. But let’s look at the, let’s look at the facts, right? How does it actually work?

[00:56:11] And maybe it’s in the calorie deficit, right? Deficit. How does it actually work? 3,500 calories is one pound. We’re at, 400 calorie deficit. Here’s what the math should be of, and here’s what the results should be. Here’s exactly what you’re doing and the results you’re doing. Okay, so let’s just grasp this and then we can say, listen, this isn’t a problem, but you just have to decide how you wanna adjust it for next week.

[00:56:36] Let’s talk about it. And then I do see that once we talk and speak about the facts and science, then we go back to, okay, how are you feeling about this? What? What are you thinking? Now it changes and it shifts because it’s less them spitting in their brain and more oh, okay, I can actually see clearly now.

[00:56:58] But that helps me personally. That helps me feel like, okay, let’s just lay out the facts and be a little realistic versus oh, it’s okay. You’ve got this. Next week’s gonna be better. Which, Isn’t

[00:57:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: ideal either. Yeah. It’s, I always feel like I’m still trying to figure out that fine line, because you’ll have some clients who, can auto correct, but if you’re too stern with them, they’re like, ah, they’re like, F you, I’m gonna go eat a birthday cake now.

[00:57:27] They like go the other direction where you’ve got other people that are just like yeah, whatever. I’m doing fine. But my personal little thing is okay is the second you start to complain about your results. Okay. Now you, I get to have the talk. Yeah. Oh, that’s

[00:57:41] Jenny the Nutrionist: such a good

[00:57:42] Dr Mike T Nelson: point.

[00:57:42] If you’re okay with your results and I’m demonstrating, I’m showing you the data that, maybe you’re gaining weight or you’re not hitting your goals or whatever that, I’m doing my end of showing you the mirror of okay, here’s where you’re at. If you’re okay with it and you understand, oh, work was just super busy last week and yeah.

[00:57:57] I know. I ate the pizza or whatever. Okay I’ll fix it this week. Cool. You got the awareness, we’re good. But I, it took me a while to figure out, but like the second you complain, which doesn’t happen very often, but a couple years ago I had a client who’s I’m eating like the only 1500 calories every day, and I’m not losing any weight.

[00:58:14] I’m, doing all my macros. I’m weighing everything. And this is stupid. And I’m like, okay, now we need to have a talk of you’re obviously say you’re doing the thing, so let’s see how are you doing? What, to what degree? Let’s have a discussion. Let’s figure out what the issue is.

[00:58:29] And it’s not saying that you don’t believe what they’re saying, but for me that was like the little trigger point of, okay, as soon as you’re complaining about your results, then we need to have exactly what you said a deeper conversation about both the physiology and the psychology, because they’re both important.

[00:58:47] And just short, quick story on that. One client, I couldn’t freaking figure out what was going on with her. We went through everything and she was still gaining, half a pound a week. But finally I said, okay, let’s just get on the phone and I’m literally gonna ask you every single thing that you do throughout your day, you’re gonna tell me what’s going on from like, when you get up in the morning to when you go to bed.

[00:59:07] And she’s yeah. And then halfway in the morning, I had my fancy coffee. I’m like, fancy coffee. What was in your coffee? Oh this doesn’t really count because I put M C T oil and butter in my coffee and I’m like, you didn’t even tell me you drank coffee before. Like, how many coffees are you having per day?

[00:59:24] She’s there’s no insulin response, so it doesn’t count. I have three a day and I’m like adding up the calories in my head and I’m like, holy crap. I’m like, yeah, that definitely could be it. She’s really? And it wasn’t her fault, like she, was got some bad information, know.

[00:59:39] Yeah. And she didn’t know it was a thing, so she didn’t know to tell you about the thing. So she wasn’t trying to lie or anything like that. Of course we cut her back down to one starts losing weight again. Yeah. But it’s so good. It’s just crazy. Like the things you don’t even think of as sometimes become the thing that prevent them from getting the result.

[00:59:56] Yeah.

[00:59:57] Jenny the Nutrionist: This made me think of two things. The first is something that I implemented because similar to you right? It’s what you were saying about you have the indicator of, okay. When they start com complaining, then you know that there’s a misalignment. Yeah. And because people are so different, right?

[01:00:16] Some people, they expect to be perfect, right? And then have really quick, perfect results. And then some people maybe have the bar a little lower. They’re like no I expect myself to be 80% and have 80% results. And so I, to figure out. What that was for each person. I started doing what I call like stoplight traffic to stop stoplight tracking.

[01:00:41] Where each week I want you to zoom out and rate yourself based on are you on trend, not necessarily this week or this day, but are you on trend to achieve your goals. And so at the, if they put, I like, if put green, I’m like, okay. They think, okay, I’m on track at the pace that works for me and my expectations and efforts align yellow.

[01:01:03] Okay. I can look and see what’s going on. Maybe question some things red. Okay. I know that they think that they should, be way further along typically is what it is. Or something’s off there that we can coach on because that goes back to the psychological. And so that’s really helped me just on the coaching end, being able to address issues like that come up.

[01:01:26] The other thing, did you have anything in addition to that or you wanna comment on that? No,

[01:01:30] Dr Mike T Nelson: I love that. I’m gonna steal it.

[01:01:31] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah, no it’s been great from the coaching aspect for sure. Yeah. That’s awesome. And then the other thing that I noticed, especially with, again, going back to these type of ladies who have experienced high stress, undereating, a lot of ’em may either have some hormonal compo component, like minor issue.

[01:01:51] I say where it’s enough to have symptoms or impact their ability to build their shape, but not enough where it’s in the clinical world gonna count as anything. Or this is less, but it’s still something I see as metabolic resistance. And so it could be something where they’re like, no, I am doing everything and I’m not seen.

[01:02:12] The changes. And of course my first thought is, okay, but are you really doing everything? Let’s go through and check everything. But I do see a lot of that. I’m like, yeah I trust you. I believe you. I know you’re on top of it. I see the things you’re doing. Something else is going on. Let’s get labs again.

[01:02:28] Let’s look at this. Let’s friend a flush protocol. Let’s take a deeper dive in a different approach. Because that is something, I think that is a come becoming more and more common with the stressful type A ladies. You high stress, lower stomach acid, more gut issues. And so there are a handful of things like that I’m seeing more and more of, I think just in the world too through, because of different factors, more gut issues, more hormonal issues.

[01:02:58] So that’s just a side note thing, but it reminded me after you shared your example.

[01:03:03] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I tell people this all the time as we wrap up, that if you’ve done everything you can on your end, as a trainer, whatever your licensees, whatever your, background education is, then it’s okay to ask a specialist or it’s okay to get more labs done.

[01:03:19] It’s okay to, go to the next level, whatever that possibly is, monitor your stress with H R V or track your training more, whatever it is, right? Because I always tell clients like, physics always works somehow. Like we just need to figure out what the next thing is, what the next leverage is. And they’re not gonna be mad at you for referring them out or having them work with someone else or whatever, that’s one thing I wish earlier in my career, I would’ve done sooner, right? Because by definition, If you’re earlier in your career, there’s only so many things you can good at. You only have so much time, so just having a solid referral network as you, build up your skills.

[01:03:55] And even later now it’s ah, I look at some people and I’m just like, you need to go see this person. Ah, I’m not the best on that. If you can’t do that or you can’t afford it or whatever. Yeah, there’s some things we can try, here’s are options of where you can go, because I think especially from a client perspective, the worst thing to hear is I don’t know.

[01:04:14] And you just give up, right? I’m not saying you would do this, like knowing that there’s another option that may even be outside of your scope or someone you can partner with. A lot of times when I’ve done that, those clients have almost always come back to me anyway, and then the shocker, they’re easier to work with because they solved the issue.

[01:04:29] That was the root cause of the issue, and now everything works again. Yeah.

[01:04:32] Jenny the Nutrionist: I think that’s the biggest thing is because most coaches are you’re gonna wanna help, right? Yeah. And so you’re gonna keep going. You wanna help, but then when you’re hours researching into this new thing that you know nothing about that isn’t, is really out of your scope, that’s when it’s okay, this isn’t beneficial for you.

[01:04:47] It’s not beneficial for the client, and you’re taking away time that you could be spending on people who you really can help. So yeah, I totally agree. And having I have a functional medicine team that once, once I see too many red flags, it’s like, all right, I think it’d be best if you focus on health first and then you can come back and focus on body composition.

[01:05:09] It is something that I’ve taken now a handful of different courses and certifications in the functional medicine world because I think it’s so important, and especially for my leading, I’m seeing more and more of it. But I feel comfortable to a certain extent and that. Extent gets cut off. And in the application process, I ask a lot of questions because that’s going to hopefully tell me upfront if you’re a good fit or not.

[01:05:34] And then if not, yeah, I can refer you somewhere else. Because at the end of the day, like I want people to get results and if they have certain, criteria or they don’t have they have it or they don’t have it, then that’s gonna tell me if they’re gonna get results in the program or where they can get results from.

[01:05:53] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing all your information today. Tell us more about what programs you have. Do you work with anyone coming up? Where can they find you? I know you’re on Instagram and everywhere else too.

[01:06:07] Jenny the Nutrionist: Yeah, so I have a four month nutrition coaching program called Create Your Shape.

[01:06:12] And as you’ve heard throughout the podcast, I work with Type A professionals who are lifting weights and want to build muscle, decrease body fat, understand nutrition, and create their nutrition routine that’s gonna serve them for the long term. So if that’s the specialty in what the program is designed to achieve, and you can follow along on Instagram at Jenny, the nutritionist, or you can learn more about me and my program on my website at jenny the

[01:06:47] And I also have a podcast, and that is also called Create Your Shape with Jenny, the nutritionist. So I have episodes that come out every week that are more all the topics that we’ve talked about here, educational based and applicational based and understanding. Some of the science and strategy that goes into it.

[01:07:06] I think that’s everything.

[01:07:08] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Oh, that sounds like a lot. Yeah. Awesome. And thank you so much for all your time. I really appreciate it. And yeah, I would highly encourage people to check everything out that you’ve got going on. You always have such great information. And tell Aaron I said hi too.

[01:07:23] Jenny the Nutrionist: Will do. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Have a good rest of your day.

[01:07:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: Thank you.

[01:07:30] [01:07:31] Dr Mike T Nelson: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Really appreciate it. Big thanks to Jenny for being on the podcast. We will link to the other podcast with Brian Boorstein. With Aaron, our friends, Rick and Dee. We met all at the wedding in Colorado and other links. Also, you can find Jenny on Instagram and her website and everything below.

[01:07:55] Highly recommend you check out all of her great work there. Big thanks to her for sharing all of her wisdom on the podcast. That was awesome. And if you’re not on the wait list yet for the Physiologic Flexibility Certification, if you wanna learn how to increase your ability to recover or be more robust, anti-fragile, and just generally much harder to kill, go to

[01:08:21] You’ll be able to get on the wait list. It opens again September 18th through September 25th, 2023. So go to physiologic All the other links will be here in the show notes. As always, thank you so much for listening. Really appreciate it. If you have time, please leave a very short comment goes a long way to help us get better distribution of the podcast.

[01:08:48] Since right now it’s just myself and it’s sponsored by the certification I created. So any help getting it into more people’s ear holes is definitely appreciated. Feel free to leave us whatever stars you feel are appropriate and if you can send it to someone you think may get a benefit from this please forward it on or leave me a message on social media and tag me so I can say thank you.

[01:09:15] Thanks again for listening. We really appreciate it, and we will talk to all of you next week.

[01:09:22] [01:09:30] Nancy: This podcast is for informational purposes only. The podcast is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. You should not use the information on the podcast for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease or prescribing any medication or other treatment.

[01:09:46] Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before taking any medication or nutritional, supplement, and with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this or any other podcast.

[01:10:02] Reliance on the podcast is solely at your own risk. Information provided on the podcast does not create a doctor-patient relationship between you and any of the health professionals affiliated with our podcast. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

[01:10:19] Opinions of guests are their own, and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to therein.

[01:10:37] If you think you have a medical problem, consult a licensed physician.